I have several turnouts laying end to end connected by rail joiners. This could lead to problems in the future by intermittent contact. My only real solutions as I see it, is to solder feeders directly to the turnouts, or insert a 1 inch piece of track between each turnout and connect the feeders to them, or solder the turnouts together. Soldering a wire to the rail joiner is better than nothing but not too reliable over time.I am using Peco insulfrogs.
I don't really want to solder the turnouts for ease of replacement if needed. What do you suggest?
73
Bruce in the Peg
Bruce:
Have you considered added jumper wires from one side of each railjoiner to the next?
This is more trouble than sodering rail joiners, but makes it easier to change turnouts.
Dave in Oshawa
Soldering to the joiners is a common solution to this; several manufacturers sell joiners with feeder wires already soldered to them.
You're bang-on right in not wanting to solder to the turnouts; sometimes a consistent, well-nigh unsolvable problem requires ripping the rotten thing out and installing a new turnout. When and if this problem happens, there will be considerably less swearing involved if the problem child doesn't need to be de-soldered first.
Happy training!
Stu
Streamlined steam, oh, what a dream!!
Dave, Thatcis what I meant by "soldeing feeders to the turnout but, you are right, it would work better.
BB
My choice would be to solder feeders to the turnout. I find unsoldering a feeder a whole lot easier than unsoldering a joiner. Turnouts are the one thing we really like to salvage for future layouts when possible. When taking track apart I usually snip either side of the soldered joiner and that means my 1 metre length of flex track is now a tad bit shorter, "oh well".
When taking up a T/O, I prefer to cut the feeder where it joins the bus and lift the T/O and pull the feeder wire back through the bench. That way the feeder stays soldered to the T/O for next time. Soldering feeders to the track is the dicy part, so leave it attached.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Atlas has HO Rail joiners with a wire pre soldered to them. Maybe this could help you out?
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
DigitalGriffin Atlas has HO Rail joiners with a wire pre soldered to them. Maybe this could help you out?
I've used a few of those. But as I think about it, the joiner is really just a mechanical fastener that happens to conduct electricity, most of the time. If the issue is that there is a lack of contact between the joiner and the attached rail, then that issue will remain whether or not the joiner has an electrical connection to the bus.
These will work, although they are still just rail joiners and they still will loosen up over time, resulting in a less reliable connection. I think soldering is the only reliable long-term solution.
Atlas rail joiners with a wire soldered to them, though, are very expensive for what they are. I take a scrap piece of track and put rail joiners on it to hold them in place, and then solder on wires myself. First, it lets me use much heavier feeder wire than what Atlas supplies. Second, I can use red and black wires, so I know at a glance which bus wire they go to under the layout. Finally, I don't need to wait for Atlas to get them here from China.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Bruce,
Don't know what brand of turnout you're using, but as most turnouts benefit from having their frogs wired to change polarity with the stock rails as they are switched from normal to diverged and back, it might be best in the long run to solder feeders to the stock rails and frog before you install the turnout. That way, you're set up to supply the correct polarity power using your manual throw or switch machine. If you do have to pull the turnout, just clip the wires or disconnect them (at their far ends). Then you can pull the turnout without fuss, wires attached. As a bonus, soldering at the bench is sure easier than soldering under it. As far as that goes, if you run all your feeders to a channel behind the fascia (a la Lion's tip) you can use barrier strips or solder tags and make it all easy to access.
Lou
davidmurray Bruce: Have you considered added jumper wires from one side of each railjoiner to the next? This is more trouble than sodering rail joiners, but makes it easier to change turnouts. Dave in Oshawa
WINNER!!!
I solder jumpers around every non-insulated rail joiner and leave the rails free to slide. If disassembly is required, the jumpers can be cut with whatever you can get to them. I prefer diagonal cutting pliers, but front cutters also work.
The no-longer-needed end of the jumper on the not-to-be-removed rail end can be heated and removed (leaving the rail pre-tinned for the replacement jumper.) Or you can simply roll the jumper around the points of a pair of long-nosed pliers, rather like one of those 'roll up with a key' sardine can lids. I've used both methods when salvaging flex track from old work.
Do I use the same method on turnouts. Frankly, no. My turnouts are assembled in place, and more than a few of them have stock rails a yard long. Two three-ways and a standard turnout have A stock rail a yard long! (Nonomura yard throat. The three ways have both curved routes diverging left...)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I never really saw the benefit in not soldering the turnout in place. The idea that it is going to be easy to remove/replace a ballasted turnout is fantasy. In addition, I haven't had many turnout failures. I have only had to replace a couple of turnouts in many years in the hobby, I just use the dremel to cut out the turnout and then clean up the piece of joiner left on the approach track with a soldering iron. Much less time on the repairs than would be spent on extra jumpers or feeders.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
On Peco Insulfrog turnouts, there is no frog to power. But if you lay the turnout upside down you will see a place where Peco left a slot open between some of the crossties. I solder a feeder wire to the point and stock rails at this slot to eliminate all future problems with the point rails not making good contact with the stock rails. This wire can then serve as a feeder to the entire turnout. I then put insulated rail joiners on both rails that diverge from the frog, and provide separate feeder wires to the track beyond the turnout. This has proven to be a very reliable power feed solution on our large HO scale layout where we have close to 50 Peco Insulfrog turnouts.
I have never liked the idea of soldering a feeder wire to the rail joiners before installation ala the Atlas joiners with pre-soldered feeders, for the simple fact that if you want to solder the joiner to the rail after installation, the heat is likely to melt the solder on the bottom of the joiner and cause that feeder wire to separate.
Rail joiners are great conductors when new. But over time they develope a fine film of corrosion, which then gives intermittant contact. Many times I have had a DCC loco stall somewhere, and it starts up when I gently press on the nearest rail joint. Soldering jumpers or feeders is the best solution. If you solder the joints, you may wind up with buckled track, depending on your trainroom temperature variations.
Rail Joiners are a mechanical connection between rails. Even on the 1:1s they have little jumpers across the joints for signal continuity. (Transit systems have huge wires jumpping across the rail joiners since they require a good solid return path on the ground side of their motors.
LIONS solder all rail joints. If you do not electrify each section of track 'somehow" they will loosen or paint or glue will get into them when you ballast or finsih the tracks. It is easier to solder joiners before they get slobbered on.
LION solders ALL joiners, including switches, If you want to pull them up, well, that is what a Dremmel tool is for. Cut the joiners at the joint, and a slodering iron will flick the soldered joiner remains off with no problem, and tracks are ready to reuse. May need to wire burs the tracks again before re soldering them.
LION has over 14 miles of railroad, and it simply has gotta work. Joe Q. Public gets very upset when trains are late, and if the Public is upset the Politicians hear about it, and if the Politicians hear about it your job will be on the line.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
As has been mentioned, soldering feeders to the joiners does no good if the joiners aren't conducting any current. Why not just solder the turnouts together? Any time I've had to remove a turnout, I simply heat the joiners, then use the tip of a #11 blade in my X-Acto to push them aside.Unless your layout room experiences drastic climate changes, soldering a few turnouts together is unlikely to cause problems with expansion and contraction - all of my track is soldered together, and no such problems in over 20 years - and that's in an unheated (but well-insulated) basement.
Wayne
Thre are two options 1) solder a short piece of wire between the two rails or 2) solder feeders to each turnout. If your bus wire runs under/near the turnouts #2 would be recommended.
Wires soldered to rail joiners is a bad idea, never rely on rail joiners to conduct electricity. Not to mention the OP said he wanted to not have to rely on rail joiners.
Bruce, as the replies are posted, everyone is focusing on the issue of soldering, but not really commenting on your particular track setup.
The fact that you have several turnouts laid end to end is an important consideration. I have one spot on my layout where I have three 3-way turnouts laid end to end. What I do is to be certain that every end of every turnout has a rail joiner with a feeder wire soldered to the bottom of the rail joiner. However, I do not solder the rail joiners to the turnouts and I see no reason to do that. If the rail joiner fits snugly, that is the end of my concern.
Rich
Alton Junction
Those Atlas rail joiners have very small gauge wires attached- better to use plain joiners soldered to each end of a piece of the track and then add more robust feeder wires along the way- more reliable electrical current flow and less of a hassle dealing with those insubstantial joiner wires (they seem even smaller than the 28 AWG computer ribbon cable wire I use for car and locomotive electrical wiring!).
Cedarwoodron
I solder feeders to my stock rails and solder the rails to my rail joiners. With a chain of switches described, either solder the joiners or add feeders to each switch. Or both. Your choice.
I find replacing switches to be rare and when needed, I just cut the rails on the bad switch shy of the soldered joiners. Heat each joiner with my solder iron and slide the cut piece of rail and joiner off. Adjacent rail is already tinned for the new joiner.
Martin Myers
trainnut1250I never really saw the benefit in not soldering the turnout in place. The idea that it is going to be easy to remove/replace a ballasted turnout is fantasy. In addition, I haven't had many turnout failures. I have only had to replace a couple of turnouts in many years in the hobby, I just use the dremel to cut out the turnout and then clean up the piece of joiner left on the approach track with a soldering iron. Much less time on the repairs than would be spent on extra jumpers or feeders.
Exactamundo! I solder turnouts in place too, and for the same reasons. I also like to have the solid rail alignment around the turnout that's made possible by soldering the joiners. Some of these turnouts have been recycled through several layouts despite being soldered and ballasted.
Rob Spangler