Well, my poor Class A has started acting up again. Starting to get periodically jerky and erratic, but not always. Sometimes it seems ok. Maybe the BEMF is actually faulty. After all, it worked ok for many years with the original settings. It does still run smoothly on "STC". Could there be any EXTERNAL issues I should look out for? This may sound stoopid but, could lighted (MTH) passenger cars cause anything?
Mike C.
Congrats
Welcome to the world of smooth RTC control. :-)
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Well, I think I did it! I wound up setting the "low speed", "medium speed", and "high speed" values to 6 (instead of 13) and 30 (instead of 50). Any speed variations are virtually unnoticeable. Why it worked, I'm not sure, but it seems it did! Thanks everybody for your help!
I think I'm good with HOW to change the CV's. I'm just not sure WHICH ones to change. For instance, "slow speed": current settings are: cv56.19.0=13 and cv56.19.2=50. Should I start out changing 19.0 or 19.2, or both? Do you know which one is "likely" to be too high, to cause "surging"? I'm not sure I know what the difference is between 19.0 and 19.2. I notice the ".2" value on each speed range is currently set the SAME. Does this mean the ".0" value is the one currently set too high in a particular speed range? By the way, I am currently running in "standard mode", but as you say, slow speed is nearly impossible. I think I am noticing a little "slop" in the drivetrain, but no real "binding". This loco has a lot of "miles" on it, but still very smooth. I'm wondering if the slop is what may have brought about the problems with BEMF? Is it possibly a sensible idea to maybe just set the values to "0" in all but the "very slow" speed ranges? Would this effectively "turn off" BEMF at the higher speeds? (doesn't look like I need it at higher speeds)
The procedure is on page 348. Since you have the Q1a, you can ignore the integral setting steps.
If this is all too much for you, you can put your QSI into standard throttle mode and that should eliminate any surging or jerkiness (provided the mechanical drive is fine). But you will lose the slow speed control (BEMF) that ensures consistent movement at slow speeds.
Randy gives some good information on how to set indexed registers. I'll step you through 3 examples:
How to set CV 56.1.2 to 15
Program CV49 to 1
Program CV50 to 2
Program CV56 to 15
How to set CV57.3.9 to 5
Program CV49 to 3
Program CV50 to 9
Program CV57 to 5
How to set CV58.5 to 2
Program CV49 to 5
Program CV58 to 2
(CV50 (Secondary Index) is not used so it's value doesn't matter)
And yes I agree this is all a massive pain in the duckass to look up and program 3 values to make one setting over and over and over again till your loco is calibrated.
That's why I like the quantum programmer which allows you to set indexed CV's with one value and one click. It's command set for QSI locomotives is a lot more complete and accurate than JMRI's programmer. Also, the Quantum programmer interface is very intuitive and will program QSI and Tsunami engines without a booster or command station.
wobblinwheelDoes this make sense to you guys?
Interpreting that stuff is beyond my pay grade. Maybe Digital can help with that.
As far as whether or not the fact that there values in those CVs and can you change them goes, I would think that the answer is yes. But then again I've dealt with some decoders (Tsunami) that would acknowledge a CV change (the motor bump thing), but the engine was not affected. This was because they were OEM Tsunami in a Bachmann and ultimately did not have all the features in a "regular" Tsunami, even though it acted like a CV was doing something.
I worked on turbine-generators for 34 years, and I learned along the way that jumping in on a problem without knowing the exact details of the original product often as not led to a wild goose chase and a general waste of effort. That's why I would determine exactly which chip and revision I had, if it were me. Maybe that will be a total waste of time and what you have can be corrected without that info. But I would rather find out before I started messing with "parameters" and other things that I don't understand. Your choice.
Here are the values on the applicable CV's (verbal response):
Very slow: CV56.18.0=30 CV56.18.2=50
Slow: CV56.19.0=13 CV56.19.2=50
Medium: CV56.20.0=13 CV56.20.2=50
High speed: CV56.21.0=13 Cv56.21.2=50
Does this make sense to you guys? What do you think I should do now? Are these values, like, "low-side and high side" (since they call them "parameters") for each speed range? I get the urge to just reduce each value in half, and see what happens, but I would rather get you guys' input first. I have NO experience at this! I have yet to figure out what version of chip I have, but since it announced the values, doesn't that mean I can change them?
I still think it would be helpful if Wobblin knew exactly what he had.
Here is a link to a description of how to identify what he has: http://www.qsisolutions.com/pdf/htrqsi_dcc.pdf.
The only issue with this is whether or not he can get his DCC system to read back on his programming track without a booster. There is also a way to get the same info using DC. I didn't look for this procedure.
I also found a reference that talks about what can be done with a Q1 upgrade and also mentions something about needing to having version 6 chips replaced with version 7 before version 7 firmware can be installed. That's reference is about half-way down the page at this link: http://www.qsisolutions.com/products/techinfo/qprogrammer/q-prog-faq.html.
Whether or not any of this relates to the actual problem is beyond the scope of my knowledge. But I still believe that knowing what one actually has is a better starting point.
maxmanLooking at the QSI website, the show a manual they say is for the upgrade chip, http://qsisolutions.com/pdf/q1a_diesel_v41_man.pdf. According to page 17/23 the two choices are regulated throttle control and standard. The default is for regulated.
Maybe. Maybe not. QSI sent out a notice they were shipping with a default of Standard Throttle Control in 2012. It seems people stuck the RTC standard chips in their systems and they weren't properly calibrated causing erratic BEMF feedback on some engines. People were then returning them as "defective" when in fact they just needed to calibrated. Hence why they went to STC (STandard throttle)And this may be the crux of Wobblin Wheels problem.
I'm not sure I agree with this. The manual you reference is for firmware revisions 7, 8, and 9. I think he has an earlier version that is described in the reference I gave above, which is supposedly for the upgrade chip.
It still applies.PID parameters still apply to the Q1a chipset. CV's between revisions do not change. Only new CV's are applied. If a CV is related to a specific version, then the manual will say so. There's a talk back status command to tell you what your version your board is.The QSI chipset IS the most powerful in terms of configurability. And it can be updated without buying a new chip (if you have the Q1a+ installed) I know the manual is confusing. This is something I don't like about the QSI chipset. It's written in terms of a computer programmer (I am one) So to the layman who just understands the basics of CV's it can get confusing.For the layman, I recommend the QSI programmer + software that comes with it. It's better then JMRI's DCC programmer and handles the individual versions of the QSI chips for you so you don't have to remember which engine has which revision. It will even allow you to update your Version to the latest firmware.
Maxman, you could be right. One of the CV's identifies the firmware installed. I will investigate this before I go "pokin' around". Thanks guys for all the input. I've never had nerve enough to dive into these things this deep before, but since it's not working properly now, what the heck? I have to say, this is intriguing to say the least! I'm learning stuff, even if it doesn't work!
DigitalGriffin you want this manual: http://www.qsisolutions.com/pdf/QuantumDCCRefManual_5_1_0.pdf Check out section: 5.8.13 on page 343
you want this manual:
http://www.qsisolutions.com/pdf/QuantumDCCRefManual_5_1_0.pdf
Check out section: 5.8.13 on page 343
Those QSI decoders have a way to determine which revision is installed by asking the decoder a question. The instructions tell how to do that somewhere, but I believe it involves either CV7 ort CV 8.
Absolutely no sense looking through a manual if it is not applicable to the item in question.
Look in the front where it talks about the indexed CVs. It's not terribly difficult. The second and third numbers are the values for CV49 and CV50. Fo for CV 56.19.0, you set CV49 to 19, the set CV50 to 0, then CV56 to the value listed. Everyone makes a big deal about this and ho hard it is, it's pretty logical, the second number goes in CV49, always. The third number, if present, goes in CV50, always. The you access the first number and apply the desired value.
http://www.elmassian.com/dcc/specific-manufacturers/qsi-equipment/qsi-programming-tips
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Holy cow! I looked at this manual and I can't make heads-or-tails out of this. How do I get to CV56.19.0? Or CV56.20.2? I think this is officially over my head. What I think I need to do is to basically remove BEMF at anything much over "very slow speed". It runs just fine WITHOUT BEMF except at very slow speeds. I just can't figure out which CV to change from what to what, and at this point, I'm not sure I have a new enough chip to change them anyway. This is a very old chip! I need someone to talk to me like I'm a "two year old" and tell me exactly what buttons to push!
I looked at the new manual, and yes it seems on the NEWER versions, I can modify BEMF. Unfortunately, my older version doesn't recognize these CV's. This definitely seems to be the problem. Very slow speed is ok. Mid-to-high speed is erratic. If I could taper-off BEMF at higher speeds, things would be "groovy"! I just wonder why this happened? I still think I might call Tony's Train Exch. to see if they can re-program my chip. I have gotten several Upgrade chips from them since this one. I hope I don't have to buy an "upgraded" upgrade chip!
I suppose it would be helpful if the chip version could be identified. I think there is a way to get verbal feedback from the decoder to get that info.
Looking at the QSI website, the show a manual they say is for the upgrade chip, http://qsisolutions.com/pdf/q1a_diesel_v41_man.pdf. According to page 17/23 the two choices are regulated throttle control and standard. The default is for regulated.
Edit: Sorry that link is for diesel. The link for steam is http://qsisolutions.com/pdf/q1a_steam_v411_man.pdf. Same info relating to control except on page 18/23.
You likely have the short version of the manual.
You can grab the quantum revolution manual (same CV's) and it is 100's of pages long and list every CV
I'll take a quick look and see if I can find it for you under the motor control section.
I just looked through the downloaded QSI manual. Can't see any references to changing the BEMF settings. It does mention a "speed control" setting which is in addition to "standard" and "regulated" throttle control. My loco does not recognize this setting. The manual describes this setting as the speed in scale mph is directly proportional to the speed-step reading. This would probably work, if I had it (except at speed-step 128!) Maybe Tony's Trains has an answer, if they still deal with these chips.
your feedback is probably too high
I know Tsunami has a cutout where the BEMF is slowly turned off the higher you get in speed
I would search the QSI manual (I know it's a beast) and check to see if there is a cut off value.
I am the proud owner of one of the first BLI "Paragon" (Korea) Class A 2-6-6-4 locomotives. When I bought it, I'm not sure, but shortly after that, QSI started introducing the "upgrade chips" that were equipped with "regulated throttle control" (back-emf, etc.). I think this was during the litigation between BLI and MTH, and the stock models did not have bemf installed. ANYWAY, my "regulated throttle control" has started to act up. Slow speed is great, just creeps along at speed-step one, BUT at higher speeds, the loco becomes erratic. Slows down, speeds-up, couplers jerk, and "surges". When I program CV56.4 to "0" (standard throttle control), this behavior goes away. The only problem is slow speed operation is nearly impossible! I have emailed "QSI Solutions" about this, but apparently they don't answer emails. Has anyone else experienced this? Anything I can do to fix it? Yes, I have done the "reset"- twice.