Hi All,
I worked all day trying to figure out the problem I'm having with my Tortise and signal set up, wow, I have never come across a problem as such, that it has taken this long to find a solution!! Here's the diagram that I drew up, you see the tortise, 1 & 8 are routed to my panel, then to my power supply, 2 & 3 go to the stock rail, 4 to the frog, 5 & 6 go to the Bescale target signals, one is red aspect only, 7 goes to the other which is red, yellow and green aspect, the common (with resistors goes to the DPDT switch, I hope there's a way to figure this one out, Thanks, (SMH) shaking my head).
It's difficult to tell from your sketch, but the problem that I see is that you are not feeding power to the auxiliary contacts on the Tortoise, only to pins 1 and 8. The Tortoise does not have internal power feeds to the auxiliary contacts -- you must do that separately. Pins 2,3,4 would be one set of contacts that need power fed to pin 3; for the frog, however, you would feed power to pins 2 and 4, with pin 3 connected to the frog.
Pins 5,6,7 need power fed to pin 6, with the outputs from pins 5 and 7 going to the signal red and green LEDs. There's no way to control a 3 aspect signal through the Tortoise, since it has only two possible outputs.
Signal system of LION (sort of)
All of your tortoise terminals are available for the frog, not that the LION would ever bother to power a frog, what with 48 wheel pick-up and all! These are done with two LEDs. You can use a single bi-color LED to do the same thing since the "stinger" (power wire) is either + or -, so that will already work perfectly.
Here is what looks like inside of the control panel:
More at http://broadwaylion.com/lion/tortoise.html
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Oooh, diagrams!
The top diagram is mine. The bottom one is the one that comes with the Tortoise. One thing that should be noted is that the "center" pins for each of the SPDT contact sets are NOT the center pins of each set. Instead, pin 4 is the center pin for contacts 2 & 3, and pin 5 is the center pin for contacts 6 & 7.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Hi MisterBeasley,
I think I understand your diagram, I hope this is right, your saying that I would have to pair up pin 4 w/ pins 2 & 3 and pin 5 is to be paired up with 6 & 7? by doing that I will have power to my Tortise and Signals??
TrainsRMe1 Hi MisterBeasley, I think I understand your diagram, I hope this is right, your saying that I would have to pair up pin 4 w/ pins 2 & 3 and pin 5 is to be paired up with 6 & 7? by doing that I will have power to my Tortise and Signals??
No, I don't believe he said that. Power to the Tortoise is at pins 1 and 8. That makes the Tortoise move. You will need something to change the polarity at pins 1 and 8 to reverse the Tortoise direction.
The frog is fed by pin 4. The power for pin 4 comes from the stock rails...one stock rail connects to pin 2, and the other to pin 3.
In like manner, the power for pin 5 comes from whatever power supply you connect to pins 6 and 7.
You don't show any power supply for either the Tortoise or the signals.
It is unclear to me how you get 3 different color indications out of the 3 aspect signal.
I'm using a 12 v adapter for my power supply, as far as having a three aspect signal, I could do without.
One side of your signals has to go to one side of the power supply. The other side of the power supply goes to pin 5 of the Tortoise. Pins 6 and 7 go to the signal. You cannot do a real 3 aspect signal with just switch machine contacts. If you simply mean to have a mainline signal facing the point side go between green for straight and yellow for diverging, another signal ont he frog side of the main that is eithger green or red, and one for the siding that is either yellow or red, you CAN do that, just wire all three LEDs that are on for a given switch position in parallel so that in one position the Tortoise turns on two green aodn one red LEDs, in the other position it turns on ywo yellos and a red. Place the LEDs in the approriate signal masts.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Randy, I had suggested a Logic-Rail Signal Animator for TrainsRme in this thread but he never replied back...
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CCUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcs.trains.com%2Fmrr%2Ff%2F744%2Ft%2F226497.aspx&ei=fj3vUpX7IOm2yAHquoGoAw&usg=AFQjCNF5NCUH6_uWXTdPhetnvRCeogV0Yg&sig2=3wxzLijbRK0ZrnxLannG2g
The SA-1 Signal animator will make for a nice three color animation or drop to restricting when the turnout is thrown against the route. It will also realistically go to red as the IR or photocell detects a train.
Ed
HI GMPULLMAN,
I have checked Logic-Signal Animator for the info, this is all new to me ( installing signals that is) I know I'll get it, it will just take a little while to get it all together!! I work Monday though Friday, 5:00 to 2:30 driving a bus here in Portland, so by the end of the day I'm wiped, so it's taking longer to put this signal and tortise system together than I would like, But it's going to come together, I know it, thanks for the help, I know I'll be asking for more help in the future,
Hi Again,
I know that you said you would be satisfied with only the two color aspect of the signal but, hey, you already have a nice true yellow three color signal so why not have the most realistic display possible?
The SA-1 is only about $20-25. You are in N so I might suggest the photocell setup since the IR requires two holes in the roadbed and it is even tough to disguise these in HO but the photocell is much smaller and you only need one.
The nice thing about having your turnout tied to the SA-1 is that your signal will show clear IF the route is lined then, as the train passes the signal it will drop to red, as it should. IF you only use the aux. contacts the signal woulld stay green... not at all realistic for a train occupying a block.
When the last car clears, the timer on SA-1 will change the signal to yellow... then to green. IF you throw the switch against the route, the aux. contact will OPEN the circuit that the photocell is in and the signal will stay RED as long as the switch is against you.
If you really want to get fancy, you should have two (or three) signals protecting each route.
Here is a paragraph from the Logic Rail instructions:
Interlocking a single head signal with turnout position.
If you locate your signal near a turnout it is desirable (and prototypical!) to interlock the signal with the position of the
turnout. What this means is that the signal will be forced to display red when the turnout is not aligned properly for the route
the signal protects. Figure 1 below shows how you can use the auxiliary contacts on a switch machine/motor to accomplish this. Many switch machines/motors have one or more sets of “SPDT” (single pole double throw) contacts that you can use.
Basically all that is needed here is an “SPST” arrangement. You simply want to have the photocell disconnected from the
Signal Animator
when the turnout is thrown for the diverging route (the terminal labeled COM makes contact with the
terminal labeled N.O. (Normally Open)). When the photocell is disconnected the
Signal Animator will be tricked into thinking the photocell is covered from light (because the open circuit looks like an infinitely high resistance to it) and will thus display red on the signal. When the turnout is moved from the diverging route to the main route (the terminal labeled
COM makes contact with the terminal labeled N.C. (Normally Closed)) the photocell will be reconnected and, if uncovered,the Signal Animator will delay, turn the signal yellow, delay and finally turn the signal green.
I'm just suggesting that for a little more investment you can have your signal operating almost like the real thing and that's what makes the most fun in Model Railroading!
I've had good luck buying from Jim's Trains. http://www.ebay.com/itm/SA-1-LED-Signal-Animator-Photocell-Detection-Logic-Rail-/181288979808?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item2a35aa4d60
Enjoy, Ed