Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Wiring and Reverse Loops challeges

3007 views
12 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 8 posts
Wiring and Reverse Loops challeges
Posted by wildcat steve on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 11:11 PM

As a novice trying to create a layout with my son, I have hit a roadblock.  I have built the Atlas Up & Over Dogbone and know based on reading where the reverse section lies, and where to place the 5 insulated gaps.  Using Digitrax DCC controller, the engine is extremely inconsistent when entering and exiting the reverse section.  95% of the time now it just stops completely upon entering loop, without the properly wired AR1 working.  Occasionally, however it will work, but woefully inconsistent.  I understand this could be many things, but I have checked the diagrams and wiring seems OK - used 14g bus line, and a few 20g feeders.  The reverse section is not that long (4 ft or so), and the train is not overlapping or too long for the reverse section.  Do the experts think I may need more feeders throughout the track?  The "quarter" test is fine everywhere though. Does the "quarter" test indicate my track has enough electric current, or am I being too naive?  Frustrating because a few weeks ago, everything worked, just hesitated throught the reverse section....now just stops completely.  Track cleaning did nothing.  Need help or a house call.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 10,582 posts
Posted by mlehman on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 9:03 AM

Steve,

The AR-1 has an adjustable trip current. Have you tried adjusting it yet?

Since it did work previously, it's possible it's something else, but this will make a difference in how the reverser senses the need to change.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 8 posts
Posted by wildcat steve on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 1:05 PM

Yes. Thanks, I forgot to include that I've been playing with the trip settings and so far, no consistent success.

I'm hesitant to redo wiring given that it HAS worked, but i also understand that the answer is probably in an electrical problem that this novice can't figure out.  

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 1:55 PM

 The quarter test is a good sign, but if you wired it per the Atlas diagram you may need more feeders just the same. Rail joiners are a notoriously bad connection, so with sectional track where there are many, you either need more feeders, the joints soldered, or jumpers soldered to the rail bypassing the rail joint.

The AR1 is adjustable, if set too high then it will be unreliable and not always trip before the command station. Another thing to do, if you are using a Digitrac DCC system, is extend the delay before the main circuit breaker trips. These are listed in the Configuring the Command Station section near the back of the manual. In fact if you preciouly had this set and maybe reset the system, it will have reverted to the factory defaults.

         --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 8 posts
Posted by wildcat steve on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 1:58 PM

Mike - thanks for your suggestion.  Yes, I did try the adjustable trip current and no success.  Engine still stops as it enters the reversal section.  I can only assume it's an electical problem, however, since the train was working with little problem previously, I'm hesitant to start re-wiring....keep in mind, I'm quite a novice.

Can adding more feeders help the consistency of the current?  I have some, but could always add more.  It's not a huge layout.  Any other way to test the problem, or should I just assume electrical and start reinforcing the wiring of the track?

Thanks to all -

Steve

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 8 posts
Posted by wildcat steve on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 2:00 PM
Thanks Randy - good advise. I will try the DCC settings. And if no success, check all my connections/joints, etc..
  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 10,582 posts
Posted by mlehman on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 3:33 PM

rrinker
In fact if you preciouly had this set and maybe reset the system, it will have reverted to the factory defaults.

Randy,

Good point. That could account for something changing to cause this when it was previously working.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, January 30, 2014 4:42 AM

As an owner of five AR-1 units, I got about halfway through the OP's post and came to the same conclusion as Randy and Mike.  The TTC screw needs to be adjusted.  There is a plastic screw on the AR-1 with a slot on it so that it can be turned and adjusted with a screw driver blade.  That screw is called Tunable Trip Current (TTC). 

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 8 posts
Posted by wildcat steve on Thursday, January 30, 2014 9:28 PM

1.  Well, thanks everyone for your help.  As you might have predicted, I added some additional feeders to the main track, and reverse loop....then adjusted then trip switch...and MUCH better!  

 

2.  Just for my own education, is 18g-20g wire about the largest that can fit in the AR1 connections?  Does that matter for performance?...the rest of my main track layout is 22g feeders to 14g buss wiring.

Steve

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 10,582 posts
Posted by mlehman on Friday, January 31, 2014 5:18 PM

Steve,

If you want to feed it with larger wire, just solder a short piece of the 18-20g onto the end of the connecting wire. The short length will not interfere with the gained capacity.

I suspect they wanted to limit the load going through the AR-1 for some reason. Unless you add a whole bunch of draw in the reversing district by adding locos, lights ,etc, that won't be problem with doing this.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Friday, January 31, 2014 7:01 PM

 Short pieces of smaller wire won;t hurt anything. The PM42 can't handle #14 or #12 wire, so I just used short pieces of smaller wire that does fit and ran them to a terminal strip, the #14 hooks on there. It's pretty much the same with feeders, you can;t really solder #14 right to HO rail (well, you CAN, it would just look horrible and maybe not have enough clearence for the wheels) but the short length of the smaller feeders is insignificant and you don't get a huge voltage drop like you would if you ran that thinner wire all the way back to the booster.

                           --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Michigan
  • 234 posts
Posted by Over50 on Sunday, February 2, 2014 1:03 AM

rrinker

 ...."The PM42 can't handle #14 or #12 wire"....

                           --Randy

This is why I spent the $36 for a breakout board for the PM42 that has #14 capacity terminals for each of the (4) outputs when I configured my layout Randy. Quick and simple (just plug the PM42 into it and you're ready to go).

JMK
  • Member since
    April 2012
  • 22 posts
Posted by JMK on Thursday, February 6, 2014 8:06 PM

The break out boards from  www.Acculites.com  are what I use and am happy with them.

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!