This is a follow up from switch wiring problem.
I still can not find the culprit. So I want to start from scratch.
Is my wiring Diagram correct?
Harold
what are the boxes on the bottom?
why are there 3 connections to the circles labeled black and red that i believe are push-buttons?
i think this is how is should be wired. Compare your drawing to this
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
The way the OP represented it there's a short in the system. Greg's wiring corrects this and makes more sense. I'm still not clear on what the OPs original idea was.
Joe
The boxes at the bottom are juntion boxes. I still have about 5 switches that will need to be wired. This keeps it neater.
yes, it makes sense to have a terminal strip for each side of the supply. why are there 3 connections to each push button?
please look at the diagram i posted and compare it to yours. One side of the supply could go to a terminal strip and all the common terminals on the switch motors.
the other side of the supply can go to a different terminal strip and to each pushbutton. The other side of each pair of push-butons go to the red and black terminals on the switch motor.
You have each pushbutton going to a different side of the supply and what I believe is the common terminal of each switch motor wired back into the pushbuttons some how.
Please see my diagram.
Harold,
Need to know what kind of push bottons are you using? If you are using normally open push bottons, there is no common connection and you need, two push bottons for every switch. If you are using Atlas slide and push, you still need three separate control boxes, one for each switch. Then the first control box has a common, from the center terminal on the control box, to the center terminal on the switch machine #1, then daisy chain a wire a common wire from #! to the common term. on #2 and #3. I don't understand how you are going to throw three separate switchs with one control.
Frank
If you are using Atlas #56 control boxes, take a look at the first diagram on this site:
http://tysmodelrailroad.blogspot.com/p/wiring-diagrams.html
Even if you are using normally open push buttons, you will see what I meant by daisy chainning the common connection to the switch machines.
Greg
Ok That makes more sense. Are you sure that the diagram is correct and that the common would come off the power supply?
Not doubting you but I need to make sure before I wire them all.
In answer to Frank the switches have been in for eight years. I just keep changing to Tortoise when one messes up. The push buttons are correct.
Greg is correct.
The red and black push buttons should be normally open (NO) except when your finger is on it. (Normally open momentary push buttons.)
Wire up one first to test it before you wire them all.
(Greg's wiring diagram is the normal one for twin coil switch machines and snap switches. Not for Tortoises.)
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
hwolfAre you sure that the diagram is correct and that the common would come off the power supply?
no. i'm not sure my diagram is correct. i'm looking at your diagrams that aren't labelled very well and don't know exactly what kind of switch machines you are using.
but in general, a typical atlas type of switch machine has two coils. each coil needs to be powered momentarily to pull the switch in a particular direction. Each side of the coil needs to be momentarily connected to the supply. One side to the coil to one supply terminal and the other side of the coil to the other supply terminal. Rather than have four terminals, one connection to each coil is shared and is the common. The common goes to one side of the supply. The other side of each coil is wired through a push-button switch to the other side of the supply.
For this type of circuit, i am very sure that the one switch machine coil and the pushbutton are wired in series, that the switch machine is wired to one side of the supply and the pushbutton is wired to the other side of the supply.
presumably you have a wiring diagram from the manufacturer of the switch machines that describes what i've said if i've interpreted your drawing correctly. You could compare your diagram and mine to the manufacture's diagram to better understand how to solve your problem.
Since i still don't understand what the 3 connections to each pushbutton switch are, i can't tell you what i think your wiring will do. It looks like you each push button is connected to a different side of the supply, and i'm not sure what the common is really connected to. It looks like pushing both pushbuttons at the same time would create a short.
I will try it tomorrow and let you know how it turns out.
Most of the switches are Atlas Deluxe Under the table #66
Greg,
The diagram you provided, is correct, for a normally open momentary push button. He needs, the three switch's wiried the same way, two push buttons for each switch machine. The common wire from supply to #1 switch machine and like I said daisy chained to the next machine. I would not even use terminal strips, it seems to me, it's more complicated and more wiring. I have 45 Atlas under table machines on three control panel's with position lites wired that way 25yrs now and contrary to any beliefs about Atlas switch machines, have not had any fail yet. I don't need slow protypical speed. I want them to throw NOW!
If you want to use terminal strips, you really only need 2. One sode of the power supply to one terminal strip. The CENTER wire from each switch machine to that same strip.
Connect one pin of each pair of pushbuttons together. All of THOSE wires go to the second terminal strip. The other terminal of the power supply goes to that terminal strip.
The outside connections on each switch machine gos to the other terminal of the appropriate pushbutton.
This is what Greg has drawn, plus a pair of terminal strips to gather the wiring.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Any of you guys good at drawing diagrams. I am a visual person.
zstripe I have 45 Atlas under table machines on three control panel's with position lites wired that way 25yrs now and contrary to any beliefs about Atlas switch machines, have not had any fail yet. I don't need slow protypical speed. I want them to throw NOW!
I have 45 Atlas under table machines on three control panel's with position lites wired that way 25yrs now and contrary to any beliefs about Atlas switch machines, have not had any fail yet. I don't need slow protypical speed. I want them to throw NOW!
Frank, I salute you. I bought, and tried to install, 10 Atlas under-the-table switch machines when I first entered the HO scale side of the hobby 10 years ago. After 3 or 4 installs, I gave up, sold all 10 on Bay, and bought Tortoises instead. I will never understand how you guys get those darned things to align and work right.
Rich
Alton Junction
hwolfAny of you guys good at drawing diagrams.
assuming terminal 2 on the switch machine is common
It is. The middle one is common.
Rich,
The big key to that is, turn the layout over and then install them.
Wiring went well. One problem All switches are working except one. Have checked all wires and theyare connected properly. How do I measure to see if this switch went bad. There is no sound when I press the Push Buttons.
hwolf Wiring went well. One problem All switches are working except one. Have checked all wires and theyare connected properly. How do I measure to see if this switch went bad. There is no sound when I press the Push Buttons. Harold
Disconnect the switch from your wiring, take a pair of wires and touch them momentarily right to your power source. You can even do it with a 9 volt battery.
If you have another unused switch, you can hook your wires to that without installing it in the layout.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
hwolfHow do I measure to see if this switch went bad. There is no sound when I press the Push Buttons.
if you have a volt-ohm meter, you should see voltage across the switch push-button terminals when it is not pressed (because it is open), and the voltage should drop to zero when it is closed (the same voltage as across the power supply terminals).
if there is voltage, but zero and still volts when the button is pressed, then there is something wrong with the switch push-button.
if there is no voltage when open, there is a poor connection somewhere. You can start by measuring the voltage across the power supply, and with one lead of the VOM still on the supply, move the other from connection to connection on the other path. For example, is there voltage from the supply side of switch pushbutton to the other side of the supply? Then hold one connection on the other terminal of the supply and check along those connections.
if you don't have a VOM andwith power on, momentarily hold a wire across the two switch connections push-button terminals, temporarily bypassing the switch push-button, and see/listen that the switch snaps. you can do likewise, while holding the switch push-button down, temporarily connecting the switch machine side of the switch push-button to the switch machine to see if that connection is bad. Likewise, test the connection of the other switch machine connection back to the power supply.
Greg:
You are telling him how to test the push button and calling it a switch. I believe he want's to know how to test the switch machine.
Phoebe VetYou are telling him how to test the push button and calling it a switch. I believe he want's to know how to test the switch machine.
thank you. I tried amending my previous post to be clear about the push-button switch and the switch machine. But i believe i explained how to test the complete circuit, including the wire connections.
As I was working alone I could not press the push buttons while putting my meter on the Switch Machine. At the Power Source the voltage was 17.5VAC. But at all the switches the voltage was zero. This reading were on all the machines that are currently working. Could it be that the machine are in a closed position and will indicate voltage when my wife hits the push buttons tomorrow?
hwolfBut at all the switches the voltage was zero. This reading were on all the machines that are currently working.
I assume when you say switches, you mean switch machines. (I'm told that switches are the moving parts of a turnout).
Since there is not a complete circuit because the push-button switches are open, you should not measure any voltage across the switch machines. I tried illustrating this in the diagram below with the voltmeter indicated by "C".
I had suggested measuring the voltage across the push-button terminals (B below) without the push-button being depressed. As the diagram illustrates, there is a direct connection to one side of the supply on one terminal and a connection to the other side of the supply through the switch machine coil on the other terminal.
If you measure zero voltage here, try measuring the voltage between the supply side terminal of the push-button (right-side) and the other switch machine terminal (2) (D below). If you now measure a voltage, this indicates that the switch machine coil is open.
You can verify this by measuring the resistance across the switch-machine coil. It should be close to zero (but not zero). compare it to resistance measurements on the other coils.
You need to get yourself an Alligator clip, for the negative probe of your meter. Makes life so much easier.