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Athearn RS-3 decoder installation

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Athearn RS-3 decoder installation
Posted by tstage on Friday, December 13, 2013 9:54 PM

Hi fellas,

I have an Athearn RS-3 switcher that I'm installing a decoder in.  I'm completely replacing the light board that comes with the unit with a TCS A4X decoder so that I can use LEDs for the headlights.  Here's what it looks like

The top and bottom tabs on each end are for track power, with the two pads in between for lighting.  The two center pads at the bottom are for the motor.

The Athearn RS-3 has only a single wire for track power on each truck.  Do I need to somehow solder another wire from the other side of the truck to the track pad on the decoder in order to pick up power from the left rail?

Also, would I be correct that this unit uses the chassis to pick up power from the left rail?  I ask that because there was a wire on an opposite track pad of the lightboard that was attached to one of the screws (via a spade connector) that held the lightboard to the chassis.

I appreciate the help.  Thanks.

Tom

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Posted by Mark R. on Saturday, December 14, 2013 12:59 AM

Your assumption is correct. Athearn uses the chassis as a ground plane for the left rail pick up. Your option really if you want to maintain the chassis ground or hardwire the trucks with wire. At least by hardwiring the trucks, you are eliminating one non-solid electrical connection.

 

Mark.

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, December 14, 2013 3:15 AM

Tom,

I thought I would share this with you. A lot of useful info on this site:

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track.htm

Frank

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Posted by BIG JERR on Saturday, December 14, 2013 3:52 AM

I put a tsunami in a athearn RTR rs3  and what  I remember is 1. it was a roomy unit for install compared to sister Atlas classic rs3 ..

2. THOSE trucks to chassis mech electric connect were fouled with paint and had to be hard wired to the metal truck side frame ( these need to be redone as metal of poor grade and difficult to solder  ) the one side was wired from factory with a rivet and is well, OK . But the mech thru the frame was to spotty for dcc/sound

3. the factory GOR bulbs were glued in heavy and tore out the two-light casting when removed so with LED I have the large rs1 headlight look now  (oops)

though the unit is running and sounds good IT still not solid in the power-pick up cause on those truck side plates that need attention, NOW that I have a bit more solder experience I need to redoo , BUT the mech factory connect was fouled and worthless ...good luck and watch those fragile hand rails ..JW

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, December 14, 2013 4:17 AM

Tom,

Mark R. gave you the answer.

I hope Randy Rinker doesn't mind if I quote him, but this issue came up once before in a thread that he and I participated in.  Here is what Randy had to say about the issue.

The frame is used as the other pickup point. If you look you will see a wire connected to one of the outside posts ont he circuit board which is short and just loops under the board. It has a ring terminal on it which is sandwiched between the circuit board and the frame by the screw tha tholds the circuit board in.

 For best results solder some wire to the side of the trucks that don;t already have wires and use that. The brass rivets holding the metal plate to the plastic are a good soldering point. This will result in a much more reliable connection than via the truck bolster into the frame.

                              --Randy

Rich

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Posted by BIG JERR on Saturday, December 14, 2013 4:23 AM

richhotrain
For best results solder some wire to the side of the trucks that don;t already have wires and use that. The brass rivets holding the metal plate to the plastic are a good soldering point. This will result in a much more reliable connection than via the truck bolster into the frame. --Randy

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, December 14, 2013 4:26 AM

What you really have to wonder is what made Athearn do that.  It seems like they took the lazy way out.  Why not just connect four pick up wires to the trucks in the first place?

Rich

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, December 14, 2013 4:59 AM

Tom,

You may want to keep this site in your files for reference:

http://tonystrains.com/download/dec-installation-hout.pdf

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, December 14, 2013 5:03 AM

zstripe

Tom,

You may want to keep this site in your files for reference:

http://tonystrains.com/download/dec-installation-hout.pdf

Frank

 

Huh?

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, December 14, 2013 5:16 AM

The site explains in detail, how to isolate any Athearn motor from the frame and pic's and info for other Models.

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, December 14, 2013 5:20 AM

The Athearn RS-3 is part of the RTR series.  It is DCC Ready, with an adapter for a Quick Plug drop in.  Tom's concern is to hard wire the additional two pick ups to the trucks since the sound decoder will require those connections.

Rich

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, December 14, 2013 5:23 AM

That's exactly what the site explains.

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, December 14, 2013 5:27 AM

Where?

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, December 14, 2013 5:35 AM

richhotrain

Where?

 

When you get to the site. Schroll down to Athearn HO diesel installation and it will tell you how to isolate the frame from motor and wires to the trucks and where to solder wires to motor.

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, December 14, 2013 5:44 AM

Frank, you are misunderstanding Tom's issue.  The motor is isolated from the frame.  I have two of the Athearn RTR RS-3 locos myself.  They come from the factory DCC Ready, and the decoder install is easy.

What Tom is asking about is the lack of pick up wires due to the curious way that Athearn chose to provide power from the rails.  When you move from a non-sound decoder with a Quick Plug to a hard wired sound decoder, you need to connect four pick up wires to the decoder, but the current set up only has two pick up wires, front and rear trucks, same rail, thus, no power.

Rich

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, December 14, 2013 6:29 AM

Obviously you didn't read what the site had to say.

BTW why are you bringing this to my attention? My post was not addressed to you, I posted for Tom's info. Unless of course, I needed your approval first to reply.

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, December 14, 2013 6:50 AM

MRC has a very curious way of dealing with this issue with its sound decoder.

http://www.jimsmodeltrains.com/userguides/MRC_1820.pdf

Hmmm, I think that I prefer adding the extra pick up wires with a better sound decoder, as you are doing, Tom.

Rich

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, December 14, 2013 9:10 AM

Frank,

Thanks for the links.  I actually already have both of those bookmarked and have used them in the past - e.g. the SW1 conversion in the Tony's .pdf.

Rich is correct that the Athearn RS-3 already comes DCC-ready.  Prior to this installation I used a NCE D13/15 decoder with the onboard harness, which worked okay.  I didn't like my lighting options with the Athearn lightboard so I decided completely replace it with a hardwired decoder.  The TCS decoder is roughly the same size (thickness and width, but a little longer) as the original lightboard and should fit, as long as I make sure that it clears the cab molding on the inside of the shell.

 

Rich,

Thanks for Randy's quote.  That was helpful, as I had noticed those brass rivets that hold the metal plate onto the truck.  I'll try and solder to that to get the RS3 to respond.  I also agree with you.  Seems like Athearn was trying to find the most cost-effective (but not always the best) way to power their RS-3.  That would explain why all the track pickup, motor, and lighting wires are color-coded by the Ford - i.e. they're all black.

 

Jerry,

Thanks for your input, as well.  I was pretty disappointed in how Athearn designed their headlights - i.e. giving no forethought to the notion that the GOW bulbs would eventually burn out and/or whether a user might want to replace them when they did or with LEDs.  Both the fragile GOW bulbs and lenses broke as I removed them from the shell.

I glued in a ~3/8 to 1/2" long section of 5/32" OD styrene tubing over each headlight opening to hold the LED.  (I did this when I added rear lighting to my Walthers SW1 switcher and it worked quite well.)  I'm hoping that the LED headlight will project just fine through the opening w/o plastic lenses installed.  Perhaps I could find and glue in styrene rod that might fit the ID of the opening.  First things first though.

Tom

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, December 14, 2013 2:22 PM

 Nope, go right ahead and copy my advice. It you paid attention when removing the factory board, you would have seen the short wire with a ring terminal trapped under one of the screws - that's how the chassis side connected tot he circuit board.

 Note that my first Atheran RS-3, DESPITE adding the wire directly to each struck, STILL had horrible pickup. My theory is that the plastic part of the truck bearing area sticks out too far and prevents the bushings from contacting the metal part. Two options, carefully file the palstic a bit, or just solder the wires right to the square brass bushings. I picked up a second RS3 in a random road name on eBay for about $20, that one ran fine even before I added the direct wires for the chassis side, so I swapped shells nad put the bad one in a drawer for later examination. If I can get it to run reliably, I can always strip and repaint the other shell.

   --Randy

 


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Posted by tstage on Monday, December 16, 2013 7:47 AM

I was able to install the TCS AX4 decoder into my Athearn RS-3 this weekend.  It ran a bit rough at first so I scraped the paint off the right rail contact with an X-acto knife blade and resoldered the wire, which helped somewhat.  I think the wires I soldered onto the left rail bushings might be interfering with the motor rotation so I'm going to take a look at that tonight.

Are these units somewhat noisy?  I'm guessing that these use the same chassis/motors that were used in the old BB Athearns?

BTW, the LED headlights work quite well inside the LED holders I added inside the shell.  I hand-drill out a ~1/2 long piece of 5/32" OD styrene tubing with a #32 (0.116") drilll bit and glue it to the shell, similar to the one below that I added to the cab of my Walthers SW1 switcher:

The 0.116 ID provides a nice press fit for the lens of the LED but it still can be removed for replacement, if needed.

Tom

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, December 16, 2013 8:15 AM

tstage

Are these units somewhat noisy?  I'm guessing that these use the same chassis/motors that were used in the old BB Athearns?

 

Tom, I have two Athearn RS-3 locos.  One runs relatively quiet.  The other sounds like a coffee can with a few nuts and bolts inside the can.  There are some older threads on the forum about this noise issue.

Rich

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Posted by gmpullman on Monday, December 16, 2013 11:32 AM

Hi, Tom

Another consideration with any of these locomotives with the "live" chassis (I have quite a few early P2k engines where the frame is part of the pick-up circuit) is to make sure the couplers or draft gear are electrically isolated, too.

I know most recent engines feature plastic draft gear but again, on some of the early P2Ks the draft gear was part of the frame (or chassis if you prefer.)

It would make for some nasty troubleshooting down the road when the engines may be oriented where there was electrical potential between the couplers causing a short. I imagine your RS2 has plastic draft gear but there's always that odd chance for the gremlins to creep in and having the metal chassis electrically live can present some real headaches!  Not an issue if you use any of the plastic imitation couplers but Kadees in a bronze spring would definitely be uninsulated. Kadee makes a plastic shank series but I don't know the number offhand.

Happy Modeling, Ed

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Posted by tstage on Monday, December 16, 2013 2:33 PM

Randy,

IIRC, didn't you post something here on the forum a year or two ago that an Atlas RS-3 chassis would fit the Athearn RS-3 shell?  Just seeing what my options are if I can't get this chassis to run to my liking.  Thanks.

Tom

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, December 16, 2013 3:46 PM

Might have mentioned I was going to try it, since I have the spare Athearn shell with a crappy drive. I haven't test fitted anything yet to see if it works.

                   --Randy

 


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Posted by Renoir on Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:26 PM

TOM

Thanks for posting this thread - I also have an Athearn RTR RS3 which I am in the process of converting to DCC. I have retained the original light board and used a TCS plug in decoder. It was simple up to that point but then I found the wire with the spade connector for the left rail had come disconnected and I had no idea how this fitted to the light board. I was about to post a similar enquiry but my brother Basement Dweller told me about your thread which has answered all my questions so thanks again.

Regards

Paul

 

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Posted by flyn96 on Tuesday, August 19, 2014 6:57 PM

Also a big thanks! I have a RS3 that I put the TCS decoder in and it runs like crap. I'll give all this advice a try and see if I can get it to run!

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Posted by flyn96 on Thursday, August 21, 2014 10:05 PM

So I've got the engine apart to solder feeders to truck frames. How the heck to I get the trucks out of the frame? I removed the motor and drive rods but how do I get them down and out of the frame? The trucks appear riveted together. There has got to be a way! Please help! Agggh

Thanks!

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