I have an N scale Kato Mikado with a Digitrax decoder in the boiler for motor and light control. I want to add a sound decoder in the tender. I have an ESU LokSound Select Micro. I bought it because it's one of the smallest sound decoders out there.
The thing that I hate is the fact you have to add more things to add a capacitor than a typical Soundtraxx TSu-750 decoder. According to the manual, you have to add a 100 ohm, 1/4 watt resistor in parallel to a 1N4007 diode. This is a tall task for n scale sound installations.
I am considering buying the following components, but before I do, let me know what you think:
1. 4 220 uF Tantalum 16V capacitors
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/T491D227K016ZT/399-5124-1-ND/1681768
2. 3 1N4007 diodes (for other applications too)
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1N4007-T/1N4007DICT-ND/76454
3. 4 100 ohm, 1/4 watt resistors (for use on other applications too)
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ERJ-8GEYJ101V/P100ECT-ND/203247
Like I said, these are going into an N scale Kato Mike and later on my son's N scale Model Power Pacific. Need something small. Do I have the right components?
David - thanks. I have an NCE PowerCab system, but I guess I should be prepared to be able put this thing on any DCC system, like Digitrax, NCE, MRC, etc.
No different that adding a keep alive to the Tsunami - the "just plain capacitor" on them does nothing to keep the motor going, it is strictly for sound. Marcus Amman's page shows how to add a proper keep alive to the Tsunami. The Loksound keep alive is a real keep alive, in that it keeps the sounds AND motor going. A larger value capacitor is typically used for this, hence the diode and resistor for inrush. Odds are this is not going to be needed, not with a small cap that can fit in N scale locos.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
So with the capacitor that I have above, there is a solid bar on one end of the capacitor that apparently, according to my research, marks the positive end. According to the ESU manual on page 17, the positive end of the capacitor is hooked up to the blue wire on the ESU DCC decoder, or the common wire. The negative end of the capacitor is hooked up to the other pad on the flip side of the DCC decoder, per the manual. The problem is that the headlight won't turn off now. It's on all the time. There is something wrong, and I'm not sure how to solve it. The way I had it before I installed the capacitor was when I hooked up the blue wire to the LED and the white wire to the LED, per the installation manual on page 11, and tried to turn on the light, it wouldn't turn on. So either the light won't turn on or it's on all the time and I have no control over it.
What's going on? I've never had such problems installing a Tsunami. Everything is clearly marked. The problem is a Tsunami won't fit in the boiler of the Kato Mikado like the ESU LokSound Select Micro will.
On all the time sounds like you blew the function. When solderign the cap wires, did you maybe bridge to the function pad next to it?
Not going on at all - is it an LED or a bulb? If an LED, you probably had it backwards - or no resistor and it blinked for an instant, and then took the function out with it, which is fairly common. The Micro needs resistors for LEDs.
The actual wiring is pretty much the same for all brands of decoders, there's really no difference other than where some of the extra functions beyond the basic lights hook up, especially with similar form factors. Note that the picture on page 17 showing the back side shows the decoder rotated 90 degrees - be sure you attached the capacitor tot he proper pad on the back. If the capcitor is one of the square SMT types,t he bar indeed indicates the + side, however if it is the small round can surface mount type, the black bar is the - side. Edit: following the link to the capciator you bought, should be correct that the bar side is the + in this case.
Not that it matters because they are the same size anyway, but a 1N4007 is overkill here - the family starts with the 1N4001 which is a 50V PIV, the 1N4007 is 1000V PIV. Overkill. But, the size is the same so it won;t really matter, you can always use a higher rated part with no harm
Randy, I checked the resistance of the two pads, none. I am correct that the blue wire goes to positive and the other negative wire for the cap goes to the flip side of the decoder, in the corner, correct, per the instructions?
When the LED was not on at all, it was the stock factory Kato LED. I wired it right because the old Digitrax decoder I had in there made the light work. The resistor is built into the stock LED light board, underneath the board.
Blue wire is positive, the picture on page 17 shows the positive of the cap connected to the same pad as used for the lighting common, which is correct.
Looking at the picture, if you did bridge two pads on top, it would have been the blue to yellow, which might have blown the rear light, but not the front one. Unless you've programmed anything, the default ont he decoder should have a normal headlight on Fo, the white wire, so your light should go on and off with F0. If you're already attempted programming, try doing a reset first, but a light function always on regardless of the state of the controlling function usually means it's blown.
Soldering on small pads like those of the decoder can be very tricky - hopefully you are using a low wattage iron with a very fine tip. It's too easy to unsolder the actual components of the decoder. I don;t know about your eyes, but I would definitely be doing something liek this unde rmy large magnifier light so I could see. Inspect the pads for a fine whisker of solder bridging to an adjacent pad where it shouldn't. Also use fine solder - I have some .015 that might even be too big but so far has worked on small items. .030 is more common and way too big for working on such a small decoder.
How many wheels does that thing pick up with? If it picks up both sides of the loco AND tender - you might not even need the keep alive. My rather light )for HO) Baldwin switcher with Loksound cuts out on the club layout all the time, but on my home layout where I never seem to have dirty track issues (and I never clean it, either), it runs fine.
Not sure what else to try, other than a reset. If the F0F function is blown, you could use one of the others and remap the output so that it is controlled by F0.
This capacitor does not work at all. It's the same value as a stock tsunami capacitor (220 uF). It still hesitates every once in a while on sound and movement (very, very slight, but noticeable).
Maybe I'll try multiple capacitors tied together in parallel, but that would not be a problem. All eight driver wheels and all eight tender wheels are picking up power.
Is the capacitance for the sound only or also for the motor?
OK, so I hooked up more capacitors, and the thing still hesitates. I've had it with this decoder and Mikado. I'm done with it. If anyone wants to trade for a Model Power Mikado, let me know. I'll pay the shipping.
The caps are for sound and lights. The motor will not be powered by the cap on bad contact areas. What you are looking for is a keep alive system tied into the track pickups (red and black wires). Join the Loksound yahoo group or even the forum on the ESU web site.
The Select micro I have in my brass 0-6-0 has been great. I know its HO but has the fewest contacts in any loco I own. This loco only picks up power from the drivers on one side and the tender on the other. The only issue I had was the draw bar but I put a wire to transfer power instead of relying on the draw bar contact.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
CV113 is only valid if you are using an ESU PowerPack. It allows you to vary the amount of reserve power the capacitor puts out. It has no effect on the "home brewed" versions. When using the ESU PowerPack, CV113 has a range of 0 to 255 with 50 being the factory default.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
locoi1sa The caps are for sound and lights. The motor will not be powered by the cap on bad contact areas. What you are looking for is a keep alive system tied into the track pickups (red and black wires). Join the Loksound yahoo group or even the forum on the ESU web site. The Select micro I have in my brass 0-6-0 has been great. I know its HO but has the fewest contacts in any loco I own. This loco only picks up power from the drivers on one side and the tender on the other. The only issue I had was the draw bar but I put a wire to transfer power instead of relying on the draw bar contact. Pete
DO NOT EVER attach a capacitor to the black and red pick ups from the track. The capacitor must be installed into the circuit AFTER the rectification portion on the board. At minimum, you could cause the capacitor to rupture - at worst, you could damage your decoder.
gatrhumpy This capacitor does not work at all. It's the same value as a stock tsunami capacitor (220 uF). It still hesitates every once in a while on sound and movement (very, very slight, but noticeable). Maybe I'll try multiple capacitors tied together in parallel, but that would not be a problem. All eight driver wheels and all eight tender wheels are picking up power. Is the capacitance for the sound only or also for the motor?
I'm not surprised. The 220uF capacitor used on the Tsunami is strictly a keep alive for the sound, to prevent it from restarting every time there is a slight drop-out of power. There's not enough reserve in a 220uF capacitor to keep sound, motor and lights on for even a fraction of a second.
The ESU manual suggests a minimum of 2200uF, and even that isn't a whole lot when everything is running - but it will get things over the small dead spots.
If you have used the correct pads as per the diagram in the ESU manual, it will power the entire decoder.
What the heck! Where in the manual when it says to install the caps does it say to change CV113?! This is exactly why I will never buy another ESU product again. Their manual is the worst I've ever seen.
Not according to the manual. The negative is wired to the flip side of the decoder at the corner, and the positive is wired to the blue wire. That's why this is so confusing. This manual is horrible. Soundtraxx is MUCH better.
Yeah, the manual makes no mention of CV113.
gatrhumpy What the heck! Where in the manual when it says to install the caps does it say to change CV113?! This is exactly why I will never buy another ESU product again. Their manual is the worst I've ever seen.
CV113 is not an option on the Select decoders - it is an option on the 4.0 decoders, and it IS there in the 4.0 manual. Again, even with the 4.0 decoder, CV 113 will only work if you use the ESU PowerPack as it contains the third control wire, unlike the typical two wire installations .... you can see this as wired in the manual.
gatrhumpy Not according to the manual. The negative is wired to the flip side of the decoder at the corner, and the positive is wired to the blue wire. That's why this is so confusing. This manual is horrible. Soundtraxx is MUCH better.
You obviously understand how it is wired .... why is it so confusing ? The only thing you might find confusing is that there are two distinct levels of Loksound decoders - the Select series and the 4.0 series. You are getting conflicting information between the two .... they are not the same. The Micro comes in "both flavors" as well.
Because other people don't understand the version of the decoder I have. I have the Select Micro version, as you mentioned. I want to make that clear to avoid confusion.
gatrhumpy Because other people don't understand the version of the decoder I have. I have the Select Micro version, as you mentioned. I want to make that clear to avoid confusion.
You opened with the fact you have a Select Micro, I always fail to understand why people tend to vere off to non-topic responses ....
Selective reading I suppose.
You have it connected properly. If you were to trace that pad on the bottom, it should connect to the negative side of the rectifier, as shown in the various diagrams on Marcus's site for adding kleep-alive to decoders that don;t have predefined connection points. The Blue wire is always positive and is typically sourced right from the positive side of the rectifier.
Where it connects per the instructions, this si providine keep alive for both the motor and sound, so you really need pretty much capacitance to keep the motor going more than a fraction of a second. Problem of course is space. Supercaps are usually the answer, they have the highest density currently available, but you also need at least 3 in series, as they are almost always 5V or less. That's what the bigger keep alive modules have in them, multiple banks of 3 or 4 in series, each group of 3 or 4 in parallel with the other groups - that's why they are good for several seconds of running with no power coming from the track. They can also be as big as the entire tender in N scale though. I realize N scale is more finicky about power pickup, but a loco with that long (relatively) of a wheelbase with 16 wheels picking up power should not hesitate unless the track is REALLY dirty. I know what dirty track does to N scale - when I was in N for a while, many of my locos were the old style with limiteds pickup, no more than 2 or 4 wheels per side, and the only big steam loco I had, the tender wasn;t used to pick up power at all. Keeping things running was a pain - eventually more than my enjoyment, so I ended up going back to HO.
Had to go back and search, I guess I deleted the PM from Tom with the details of what he added to his Bowser switchers with Loksound - it was a 2200uF cap - 10x what you are trying to put in. It's a surface mount, but can style, pretty much fills half the cab of an HO small switcher, MIGHT fit in the tender in N scale. Links to old threads don;t seem to work, but you can cut and paste:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/p/221258/2445084.aspx#2445084
Otherwise wired exactly as yours is - this Bowser Loco uses a Select, which in mine is exactly like the Select Direct I purchased seperately for another loco, essentially the Select with a 21 pin plug attached to a larger board. Same hookups to do the keep alive, just located differently. I believe I did some checking around and that capacitor that Tom found is about the highest value for smallest space you can easily find with the proper voltage rating.
My problem with the whole thing is that with all that pickup, I wouldn;t think much capacitance, if any, should be needed, on reasonably clean track.
None of my other steam engines have this problem: Model Power Pacific, Bachmann 4-8-2 Heavy, Bachmann 2-6-6-2. I can test out my new 2-8-8-4 tomorrow when it comes in the mail to see if it's the 'dirty' track or the lack of pickup. Perhaps a resistance check is in order.
So I put the ESU LokSound in my friend's Model Power Pacific, and the thing sounds beautiful. No hiccups, no interruptions, nothing, on my track. It was obviously the steam engine. Not sure what was going on there, but if I get another Mikado, it'll be a Model Power, not Kato.
Trading down from Kato to Model Power? LOL That may be a first.
Rich
Alton Junction
Others will obviously disagree, but I've never had a problem with Model Power, and I do not consider them trading down. IMO, the Model Power is heavier and tracks better than the Kato. Yeah, the detailing is not as good, but I can and did overcome that before with the Model Power Pacific I have. I've had two Kato Mikados, and they all have not ended up well.
Like I said, just my opinion.
In N scale, it seems like this would definitely be true. In HO - the newest Kato HO loco I ever ran was the SD45, and those are not exactly new. I have lots of older Kato-made locos, in the guise of Atlas RS3's, and they are all great and smooth runners. In HO, a Model Power loco generally, but not always, would be trading down. In N, it would seem, not so much. It does surprise me that a Kato loco would have so many pickup issues.