Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

What a change in DCC sound

1848 views
13 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Friday, December 6, 2013 6:31 PM

 Everyone says that, but I don;t see how it's totally true. Speakers weren't as good, you werre superimposing the sound over the DC track power, fine as long as no pulse power was in use. The chuffs were just white noise broken up by the cam on the loco, not actual chuff recordings that all decent sound decoders use, the whistle wasy synthesized with a tone generator, not recorded from an actual locomotive, and on the PFM original system, even the bell was synthesized. On the PFM II, they used bell recordsings and air pumps, and so forth, and played those off the tapes. I'm kind of surprised your tapes still work, since they were continuous loop and ran past the head (gradually wearing away the tape material) as long as the system was on. Gotta love an old school reverb though, they actually worked - speaker, spring, and mike. They did have an option to connect a big speaker under the layout for bass, with the higher frequencies coming from the loco - that was probably MUCH better.

 Pretty much any sound decoder you buy today, all the sounds in it are recorded from real locomotives. Nothing is synthesized. Some you can even fix up with your own sounds, like I did with my Reading T1's. The air pump, bell, and whistle that came with it were somewhat generic ones, possibly not even off a US loco (but they were real sounds, not synthesized). A fellow modeler made available recordings he made of one of those locos when it was AFT 1, so now I have the actual bell, whistle, and air pump sounds that belong on the prototype loco.

 Playable whistles do need some work, not all DCC systems can even support this option, and none of the decoders really handle it the right way. The latest Loksound diesel horns work pretty nicely with the playable effect, and the new TCS WOW steam decoders do a decent job on steam whistles. They also fully adjust the chuffs based on the actual load on the loco. DCC sound decoders have long supported cams to make sure the chuffs are truly synchronized, but most of the OEM model leave this off. Definitely improves the realism when the chuffs happen at the correct point, not just the proper number per driver rotation at any old spot of the rods.

                     --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorful Colorado
  • 8,639 posts
Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, December 6, 2013 2:26 PM

MisterBeasley
We missed blowing the whistle like we did with our Lionels.  Sound brings that back.  And I'm not ashamed to admit it.  Why should I be?  When I blow a whistle, I'm 8 years old again.

And that is my bummer of the year.  I got out the PFM Mini-Sound and hooked it up to the Christmas tree layout.   I had just reworked the sound equipped locomotive. It had developed a dead short a few years ago (5?) and I had not found time to get it fixed.  So this sound system has sat unused for that time.  Anyway I got it all hooked up.  Threw the power switch on, which normally converts the growling speaker (motor noise) into glorious high fidelity sound.   NOT!  I got the most horrendous noise ever.  AND worse the playable whistle doesn’t work!  Everything else seems to be working bell, compressors, generators, chuff, they are just drowned out by the background noise.   I finally figured out the horrible sound is leaking drive motor noises and tape head leakaged from the sound loops (PFM uses cassette tapes to store the specific loco sounds), but I did not have time to figure out why the whistle doesn’t work.  I assume I have to open the unit and completely clean every single contact.  Sigh.    Nor will I have time to get out the full PFM Sound System II and set it up either.   Christmas show is on the 18th.  It will have to be PFM soundless…

I want my playable Whistle!

And to the main topic - DCC sound is just now catching up with the quality of the PFM, GBL, and Grizzly Mountian sound systems of the late 1970s and 80s.

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Ontario
  • 737 posts
Posted by da_kraut on Thursday, December 5, 2013 5:49 PM

Hello Everyone,

thank you for all your replies and advice.  All the insight and information is greatly appreciated.  When it comes time to convert the locomotives to sound a lot more questions about the different products will be posted on this site.  I much prefer to ask all of you about your opinions then read the evaluation in a magazine.   Magazines make a lot of money with product advertisement which can bias the evluation.

Off TopicAs to why there is no layout, moved to a farm.  This means that before a layout is build the building to house the layout has to be build, as well as a barn, machine shed, fields cultivated, fences installed, etc.  In another couple of years questions regarding layout design will be posted.  Looking forward to seeing the trains roll again. Smile

Thank you

Frank

"If you need a helping hand, you'll find one at the end of your arm."

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Mpls/St.Paul
  • 13,892 posts
Posted by wjstix on Thursday, December 5, 2013 4:52 PM

da_kraut

This demonstration has got me thinking about also going DCC on the next layout and slowly converting my engines to sound.

Ya, why wait?? You can get several "starter" DCC sets that are all in one box, like the Digitrax Zephyr. It includes a controller so you don't need a separate throttle. NCE and CVP make similar ones with two controllers built in, so you can run two trains at once.

You take the two wires you currently have going to the DC output of one of your power packs (if you have more than one), and connect the two wires to the track output terminals of the DCC box. Now you can run DCC engines on your current layout...well, once you have an engine with a DCC decoder.

p.s. You don't have to convert all your engines to sound all at once. You could start out getting a couple of "plug and play" non-sound decoders ($20 each, more or less) and convert two engines. That way, you could learn about DCC without all the extra issues of setting sound volumes etc.

Plus once you do add sound, you don't have to do every engine. With diesels, I find it's OK to run say two GPs together, with only one sound-equipped.

Stix
  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, December 5, 2013 2:29 PM

zstripe

 

 
richhotrain
I would walk in to buy sound ballast or ground cover or flex track and walk out with $600 worth of sound locos and over priced rolling stock.   Rich

 

Rich,

WOW! And you said, Michael, (Motley) does not listen,to your, financial advice. Just a Thought!

Cheers, Your Friend. Smile

Frank

 

LaughLaughLaugh

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: N.E. Lancashire (off Jnt. 12, M65.
  • 215 posts
Posted by john.pickles87 on Thursday, December 5, 2013 9:23 AM

Hi Frank,
Next layout?  What’s wrong with the one you’re running?  Ok, it’s DC, blocked to run off for maybe 2 or 3 controllers.
 
I started same way about 5 or 6yrs ago.  All I did was select No3 controller, a Gaugemaster hand-held DC on to all blocks, pulled it and plugged in the Gaugemaster Prod.(MRC) which gave me DCC over all 18 blocks, With a ban on DC working while it was plugged in.
 
The other 2 US prototype members soon had locos DCC retro fitted and I didn’t so many of the others in our club had DCC and wanted to run.  They were busy building DCC only layouts.  Looked a bit different an S2 following a BR 06 shunter.
Be in touch.
Pick.
?
  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,483 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Thursday, December 5, 2013 9:15 AM

You can say all you want about added realism in operations and the sound of engines winding up at different rates in mis-matched consists, but it all really comes down to one thing.

We missed blowing the whistle like we did with our Lionels.  Sound brings that back.  And I'm not ashamed to admit it.  Why should I be?  When I blow a whistle, I'm 8 years old again.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
  • 693 posts
Posted by woodone on Thursday, December 5, 2013 7:53 AM
Like they say, Sound sells DCC and DCC sells sound!
  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,712 posts
Posted by zstripe on Thursday, December 5, 2013 7:18 AM

richhotrain
I would walk in to buy sound ballast or ground cover or flex track and walk out with $600 worth of sound locos and over priced rolling stock.   Rich

Rich,

WOW! And you said, Michael, (Motley) does not listen,to your, financial advice. Just a Thought!

Cheers, Your Friend. Smile

Frank

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, December 5, 2013 6:42 AM

MisterBeasley

Some years back, I was hit with a double whammy.  I was strictly a diesel modeler, from the silent era.  Then, I walked into my LHS when he was demoing a Proto 0-6-0 switcher with sound.  Before I left, I'd asked him to order me one.  I had caught a case of Steam and a case of Sound at the same time.

There is, of course, no known cure.  So, I now have a dual-era layout and most of my engines are sound equipped.  It works for me.

 

That is the one and only reason why I am glad that my LHS closed a few years back.

They were bankrupting me with their displays and demonstrations of new locos and rolling stock.

I would walk in to buy sound ballast or ground cover or flex track and walk out with $600 worth of sound locos and over priced rolling stock.  

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,483 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Thursday, December 5, 2013 6:32 AM

Some years back, I was hit with a double whammy.  I was strictly a diesel modeler, from the silent era.  Then, I walked into my LHS when he was demoing a Proto 0-6-0 switcher with sound.  Before I left, I'd asked him to order me one.  I had caught a case of Steam and a case of Sound at the same time.

There is, of course, no known cure.  So, I now have a dual-era layout and most of my engines are sound equipped.  It works for me.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Western, MA
  • 8,571 posts
Posted by richg1998 on Wednesday, December 4, 2013 7:33 PM

Before you jump and buy, do a lot of research. There are many variables to DCC and sound. Decoders and controllers are continually evolving.

 There are cable connect sets, wireless controllers. Different brands.

 TCS WOW decoders seems to be at the forefront right now with sound decoders from many of the postings I see in different forums. TCS has a nice stay alive option.  Another discussion.

 SoundTraxx Tsunami, LokSound and Digitrax have been quite nice.

 LokSound and Digitrax, you can develop your own sounds and upload them to the decoder. Not so with Tsunami decoders. No telling what SoundTraxx has in the pipeline but they will have to do something.

 You will see many opinions on different brands of decoders and controllers. I doubt there is a Best, only what you like best.

 Modifying locos will be quite a discussion.

 Good luck. It will be a interesting journey. Just remember, keep the sounds to maybe a couple feet as too many sounds will be confusing. We are full scale.  HO scale is considerably smaller.

Rich

 



 

 

 

 

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, December 4, 2013 6:52 PM

So, Frank, what are you waiting for?

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Ontario
  • 737 posts
What a change in DCC sound
Posted by da_kraut on Wednesday, December 4, 2013 6:45 PM

Hello everybody,

I know I have been living under the DC rock or boulder for the past 5 years. 

A couple of weekends past I went to the open house from http://www.yorkrailwaymodellers.ca/.  This is a beautiful, large layout that is DC and represents a era when steam was still king on the rails but diesels had started their invasion.  The rolling stock was nicely weathered and created a stark contrast with Rapido's clean "Canadian".

Knowing that there was another layout next door which represents the modern era, I thought I would go for a quick visit there as well.  There were a few very friendly gentlemen working on the layout, one that showed me the latest in Sound Technology, WOW.  It was possible to hear the engine notch up, as the train started moving.   While switching it was very noticeable as the sound went through the notches up and down to move cars and also how the engines throttled up when they went up the helix.  It must sound great when a EMD and GE locomotive are working a train together. 

This demonstration has got me thinking about also going DCC on the next layout and slowly converting my engines to sound.

Frank

"If you need a helping hand, you'll find one at the end of your arm."

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!