Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

TOGGLE SWITCH WIRING

18958 views
28 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    March 2013
  • From: Australia
  • 158 posts
TOGGLE SWITCH WIRING
Posted by tomcat on Monday, October 14, 2013 8:35 AM

Hi awesome fellows,

Does anyone know (or can lead me to) how I would wire the DC power supply to my Atlas tt motor?(Im using a Hornby SELECT controller power supply)

What I want to do is have a "MAINS" power switch (with a green LED for ON, and red for OFF) on my control panel, that I can turn on and off then have that main power switch connected to the TT motor control switch in which I would use a DPDT to change the motor direction,

Would this be practical? as when im not using the TT I can have it switched off at the MAIN toggle on-off switch?

Does anyone have something similar ?

Thanks in advance from the land "DOWN UNDER"

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 329 posts
Posted by Annonymous on Monday, October 14, 2013 11:04 AM

Content removed due to a completely frak'ed up and incompetent Kalmbach customer service.

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: lavale, md
  • 4,678 posts
Posted by gregc on Monday, October 14, 2013 5:03 PM

not sure if you know how to do what you want and are asking if others have done same, or if your looking for a circuit.

svein describes the wiring of a reversing switch.  See image below

you could also use a SPST switch to control power to either your TT switch and a green LED, or in the other position the red LED.  You could also simply use a SPST switch to control power to a TT and an LED.

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorful Colorado
  • 8,639 posts
Posted by Texas Zepher on Monday, October 14, 2013 5:11 PM

TT = Turn Table?

Are  you simply trying to use the same controller for the turn table as  you are for a train?

I am not familiar with Hornby at all.  Is there something special about it.

Otherwise it just sounds like you want the turntable controls to have an additional on/off switch.  The only complication there is the additional option of having a red LED when in the off position.

What am I not understanding?

 

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,712 posts
Posted by zstripe on Monday, October 14, 2013 5:29 PM

The only way for you to accomplish what you want,is to have a relay switch to keep,either the green lite on ,or the red lite,you cannot do what you want with just a DPDT..You can have a pilot lite stay on if you put it,before the leads in Gregs,diagram,but only red or green,not both..So when you turn on the power switch,the lite will go on and you will have power to the DPDT toggle to control the TT. That is the only way you can have a lite on without a relay..

Cheers,

Frank

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: lavale, md
  • 4,678 posts
Posted by gregc on Monday, October 14, 2013 6:01 PM

zstripe
The only way for you to accomplish what you want,is to have a relay switch to keep,either the green lite on ,or the red lite,you cannot do what you want with just a DPDT..You can have a pilot lite stay on if you put it,before the leads in Gregs,diagram,but only red or green,not both..So when you turn on the power switch,the lite will go on and you will have power to the DPDT toggle to control the TT. That is the only way you can have a lite on without a relay.

this is what I tried to explain above.   You can use a SPDT switch to control power to the TT switch and LED, or to a 2nd LED

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 1,206 posts
Posted by mfm37 on Monday, October 14, 2013 7:09 PM

Do you need a red light for off? If the green light is off, it's off. Much simpler.

  • Member since
    March 2013
  • From: Australia
  • 158 posts
Posted by tomcat on Monday, October 14, 2013 10:56 PM

Dear Zepher

The Hornby controller is one I got with a train set, but then after further research I ended up using the mighty NCE, so the Hornby doesn't control any trains its just a spare I have lying around ,

There is definitely nothing special about Hornby!!

I will just use the power supply that came with it to power my TT (Turntable) motor that's all as I don't want to use my TT on DCC.

So how do I wire the power supply leads to a master ON_OFF switch then to another ON-OFF-ON switch

ON being for clockwise direction, the other ON for anticlockwise

Thinking I will ditch the LED idea as im just learning electronic side of railway modelling

ITS SOOOOOOO MUCH FUN

 

  • Member since
    March 2013
  • From: Australia
  • 158 posts
Posted by tomcat on Monday, October 14, 2013 11:03 PM

One thing I do want to do is have a separate power switch for each of the storage tracks in the round

 house and on the storage tracks so when I start up the layout all the engines with sound wont come on until I command them to.

Is this just a case of wiring a SPDT switch on each of the tracks ?

And does the power for the switches come from the feeders to each of the required tracks?

Help needed here!!!

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorful Colorado
  • 8,639 posts
Posted by Texas Zepher on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 12:06 AM

tomcat
One thing I do want to do is have a separate power switch for each of the storage tracks in the round

 house and on the storage tracks so when I start up the layout all the engines with sound wont come on until I command them to.

Is this just a case of wiring a SPDT switch on each of the tracks ?

Yes,or even a SPST, as killing one side of the rail works just as well.

And does the power for the switches come from the feeders to each of the required tracks?

The short answer is it doesn't mater where the track power comes from, ethier a close piece of mainline track or the power supply itself.   However since the switches are usually closer to the power supply, it is easier to run a single wire from the track power supply directly to the switches and then from each switch a feeder to each track coming off of the turntable.

So what I suggest for the round house tracks.  

1. One side of track power supply to one side of all the SPST switches. 
2. From the other side of each SPST switch one wire to one rail of each corresponding round house track.   3. All the other rails of the round house tracks go to the other side of the track power supply.

This is a universal on-off scenario and works for DCC, DC, AC, Railcommand, or basically anything electrical.

Actually since you probably would ever only want 1 round house track on at any given time a selector switch might work well.   Single pole times x positions where x is the number of round house tracks.

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,712 posts
Posted by zstripe on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 3:53 AM

Tomcat,

The simplest,wiring,is in the diagram,that Greg,provided,just leave off,either the Red or Green lite..To make it even easier,leave out the LED's and resistors and use a incandescent bulb. I have a feeling though, from your other Thread on the same subject,that you are not very familiar with a diagram,for a Electrical circuit,so therein lies a problem with trying to explain it to you..One thing I have to ask,,what is the voltage requirement for the TT ?? 12 volts,16 volts,AC or DC and what is the output of the power source..You don't want to have your TT take off like a rocket,every time you use it,,by lowering the voltage to the motor,of the TT,you can slow the speed down.  For instance: 12volt motor supplied with 12volts of power will turn fast,unless it has a gear reduction motor,even then it will run fast..Now if you just supplied 6volts to the 12volt motor,it will turn much slower and look more realistic..

Cheers,

Frank

  • Member since
    March 2013
  • From: Australia
  • 158 posts
Posted by tomcat on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 6:25 AM

Hi ZSTRIPE.

You know me so well!!!  I do have trouble with diagrams unless it is very basic I sort of understand Gregs .

I need 12V DC for the TT motor and Ive just found out that the power supply I was to use is 16V AC!

 Can I still use this 16VAC anyway. the controller also has a rheostat type knob on it so that can help with the speed of the turntable should it not ?

So Where do I go from here? A  6V supply ? Need your input here Frank!

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: lavale, md
  • 4,678 posts
Posted by gregc on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 6:32 AM

instead of dealing with the above circuit, you could use an old unused model train transformer that has a rheostat and reverse switch connected directly to the TT.    The reverse switch controls the direction and the rheostat the speed.

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

  • Member since
    March 2013
  • From: Australia
  • 158 posts
Posted by tomcat on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 6:42 AM

What happens if I use the one I have

16V AC the TT motor says it needs 12V DC ,? It has a directional switch on it as well as a rheostat knob?

Do I need to buy one that's rated at 6 or 12 Amps for a more realistic movement of the table

 

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,712 posts
Posted by zstripe on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 7:43 AM

Tomcat,

Don't even try using that 16vac power supply for the 12volt motor,it may work for a while,but will eventually burn up the motor,plus,you wont be able to reverse the direction of the motor..Is there a variable DC Throttle,on that power pack? You could use that wired,to a simple,spst switch,on one leg of the wire,coming from the power pack and use the reversing switch on the power pack,to control the direction of the turntable.I f you do it that way,the throttle setting on the power pack,can control the speed of the turntable to your liking. When you are done setting your turntable alignment,just turn off that spst switch that you added. And when you want to reverse direction of the turntable,use the reversing switch on the power pack and then turn on the spst switch to change the position again,when set, turn off that spst. To totally shut off power,use the switch on your power pack..

The ideal scenario,would be to have a dedicated transformer,for power only to the Pilot lite and the dpdt,switch,like in Gregs diagram...Hope You understand,what I just tried to put in words..

Cheers,

Frank

  • Member since
    March 2013
  • From: Australia
  • 158 posts
Posted by tomcat on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 8:25 AM

strangely enough I do my friend! guess I must be learning something thanks to you and this forum!

I wont use that power supply, I will find the right one for the job . I don't want to cut corners and make it hard for myself later.

If I remember correctly most laptop computers have similar power supplies for what I need, so I will search in the shed for one . if not ill have to plead my case to the bank manager (the wife) for a little cash for what I need.

My next thing is how do I wire - the power supply to a main power switch on my control panel of the layout (SPST)? -then from that main power switch to a switch that changes the direction of the TT motor (DPDT)?  

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: lavale, md
  • 4,678 posts
Posted by gregc on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 8:52 AM

you say the TT motor requires 12 V DC.   AC won't work.

if you have an old model train transformer with a rheostat, it should have a DC output that the rheostat controls.   It may also have and AC output that you would not use.

I hope it's clear that if you have a model train transformer with rheostat, you don't need on on/off switch.  The rheostat will reduce the output voltage to zero.

If you just want to just use some other DC supply, you would connect the negative or ground output of the supply to the ground on my diagram (the thing with 3 short horizontal lines on the bottom), and you would connect the positive side of the supply to the SPDT switch indicated by the triangle on the top left.

If you don't use the LEDs, the polarity of the supply connections don't matter because you have a reversing switch.

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,712 posts
Posted by zstripe on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 9:46 AM

gregc

not sure if you know how to do what you want and are asking if others have done same, or if your looking for a circuit.

svein describes the wiring of a reversing switch.  See image below

you could also use a SPST switch to control power to either your TT switch and a green LED, or in the other position the red LED.  You could also simply use a SPST switch to control power to a TT and an LED.

Tomcat,

I can't post my own diagram,so I will use Greg's,hope he don't mind..

I don't know how your control panel is going to be,so I'll try to do this,best way I can. If you do get a Transformer,I would suggest at least a 1amp 6volt secondary output,there will be two leads at the primary,which is the AC side,will usually be black,the secondary side,usually have yellow,one positive,one negative,but that really doesn't matter which is which now,,you will have to get a line cord,with a plug at one end,so you can plug it in to your outlet. Now you will need a switch whatever you prefer,push button or toggle,on -off switch spst,rated at 3amp 120v,get a pilot lite color of your choosing,red ,green,amber and blue,rated the same,3amp 120v..Now you mount the transformer to the base of your control panel,,one lead from your line cord gets connected to one of the black leads on the primary side of your transformer,along with a length of wire to go where your on off switch will be mounted on the panel,that wire goes to one off the wires on the pilot light..now the other line cord wire,goes to the on off switch that is mounted on your control panel on one terminal of the switch,the one lead left on the pilot light goes to the other terminal on the switch,along with a length of wire,to go back to the remaining black wire on the primary side of the transformer..Once that is all wired,to test it plug it in and when push the button on the switch or toggle,the pilot lite should come on and stay on until you turn or push the switch..Once that works correctly,,mount your toggle switch near what you just put on the panel,,,I would recommend a DPDT center off mometary toggle switch,that means,you have to hold the toggle in position for it to work,when you let go it goes back to center off..Now the two leads left on the secondary side of the transformer,you will have to add leads to to reach the switch on your control panel hooked up to to the power supply marked on Gregs diagram.....A lot of words,but it is really quite simple to do.....I'll hang around,most of the day,if you have any problem's,I'm sure Greg can also help and others.Big Smile

Cheers,Drinks

Frank

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,712 posts
Posted by zstripe on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 11:35 AM

Tomcat,

I didn't mention this in my other post,but if you want to put a three way plug for the line cord,the white wire is the first wire that you would put on the primary side of the transformer,the black wire goes to the switch,the green wire goes to one of the mounting screw holes on the transformer base. And if you want to be even safer,put a in line fuse 1amp 120v,on the black wire from the switch wire that goes back to the transformer wire. You could do the same for one wire that goes to the toggle switch for the turn table, a 1/2 amp 12v fuse.Big Smile

Cheers,Drinks

Frank

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: lavale, md
  • 4,678 posts
Posted by gregc on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 11:43 AM

are you sure you want to build your own power supply?  120V can  hurt

here's a basic schematic i found on the web

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorful Colorado
  • 8,639 posts
Posted by Texas Zepher on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 1:22 PM

tomcat
If I remember correctly most laptop computers have similar power supplies for what I need, so I will search in the shed for one . if not ill have to plead my case to the bank manager (the wife) for a little cash for what I need.

I regularly cruse the local thrift store looking for 12V DC power supplies.  Here in the USA bigger ones that put out 1-5 amps can be had for $2 - $5.  I would assume a similar used market there.

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorful Colorado
  • 8,639 posts
Posted by Texas Zepher on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 1:35 PM

tomcat
What happens if I use the one I have

16V AC the TT motor says it needs 12V DC ,? It has a directional switch on it as well as a rheostat knob?

Is there only 1 output.  Usually there are two.  A set for 16VAC and another for Variable DC.  I don't understand how there could be a direction switch if there is no DC output.  AC doesn't switch directions except for 60 times a second (or I guess 50 times a second down under :-) )

Do I need to buy one that's rated at 6 or 12 Amps for a more realistic movement of the table

Not unless you are planning on turning 800 lb. gorilla's on that table.    6 to 12 Amps is enough to run a whole layout.   I am guessing the turnout motor will not need more than 1/2 amp.   I've got one in a box sitting around here somewhere I should probably get it out and test it, but if it is more than 1/2 I would be very surprised.  

Finally, I don't know where all this talk about building your own power supply originated, but I recommend NO.  First. what I've seem is talking about North American standards for wiring (except for gregc who at least mentions 220V)..  The USA only runs a 120V line voltage. Fairly dangerous but a good shock is not necessarily deadly. I've been zapped more times than I can count.   In Australia your voltage is almost twice that.  Very dangerous.  I am fairly certain Australia is going to have different standards for grounding, common, and hot wires and even the color of wires.    So the reality we know and talk about day-to-day may not be your reality in Australia or anyone else's reading this from a country other than the US and Canada.
  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,712 posts
Posted by zstripe on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 4:19 PM

Tomcat,

Well you can throw all my advice,out the window,,I totally forgot,you're from,down under..

All my power supplies,I have built myself for my layout,not once got zapped,,including rewiring my house,and putting in a 250amp service,,but then again,I was a licensed Electrician. But what do I know.

Cheers,

Frank

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: lavale, md
  • 4,678 posts
Posted by gregc on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 4:54 PM

tomcat
My next thing is how do I wire - the power supply to a main power switch on my control panel of the layout (SPST)? -then from that main power switch to a switch that changes the direction of the TT motor (DPDT)?

have you considered a momentary DPDT switch?  momentary means it only applies power when you hold the switch in either the forward or reverse direction.

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

  • Member since
    March 2013
  • From: Australia
  • 158 posts
Posted by tomcat on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 10:35 PM

That's the best option for me at the moment I think,

I still have to find a power supply

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Chi-Town
  • 7,712 posts
Posted by zstripe on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 5:19 AM

Tomcat,

Do you know any good Electricians,,that can change one of your 220 outlets,to a 110v,20amp.outlet? He justs need to take one leg of the 220, along with the neutral..He can put it in a metal fused,knife switch box.

Cheers,

Frank

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 5:52 AM

 That's probbaly not allowed by code.

Shouldn't be too hard to find a suitable power supply pre-made. It's not an uncommon output voltage. Not sure what all the fuss is about.

                 --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 6:14 AM

rrinker

 That's probbaly not allowed by code.

Shouldn't be too hard to find a suitable power supply pre-made. It's not an uncommon output voltage. Not sure what all the fuss is about.

                 --Randy

 

Amen to that.   Bow

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: lavale, md
  • 4,678 posts
Posted by gregc on Wednesday, October 16, 2013 6:21 AM

tomcat
What happens if I use the one I have

16V AC the TT motor says it needs 12V DC ,? It has a directional switch on it as well as a rheostat knob?

Do I need to buy one that's rated at 6 or 12 Amps for a more realistic movement of the table

12V DC is the maximum voltage that should be applied to the TT motor.

just because it says 12V doesn't mean you can't use something lower, 6V DC.

The TT will move slower, more realistically.

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!