I am getting ready to order a sound decoder to replace the decoder in a Bachmann DCC OnBoard GP7. I originally thought I would go with the Soundtraxx TSU-AT1000 with EMD 567 prime mover sounds. After much research I am getting the impression that the ESU Loksound decoders may be better. I am now thinking about the Loksound Select Direct decoder. I have downloaded the manual for this decoder but cannot tell which prime mover sound sets are present on it. I do not want to purchase the Loksound programmer at this time.
How do you get the correct sound sets on these decoders? Do you have to purchase from specific dealers that will load them for you?
Also, can any one recommend the best 1 inch speaker to fit in the fuel tank of my GP7?
My Layout Pics
Rogerthat,
I can't help you with the Loksound decoder,,but here is a link,that you might find useful,for the install,,I believe the 7's and 9's are basically the same..
http://www.soundtraxx.com/documents/appnotes/bachmann_gp9.pdf
Cheers,
Frank
Frank,
Thanks for the link. I have seen that plus there's one for the GP7. One of the steps deals with modifying the speaker compartment to fit a Soundtraxx speaker that is slightly larger than 1 inch. I'm hoping to find a 1 inch speaker that won't require those modifications. I think I also found my answer to the sound files questions. If I order through a place like Tony's TraIn Exchange, you must specify which sound set to have preloaded on the Loksound decoder. ModelTrainStuff.com did not have any way to specify this. I think I also read somewhere that if you have the decoder programmed at the store, that you can no longer program it without using the Loksound programmer. That doesn't make sense to me. Can anyone clarify that you can still modify CV values without using the programmer?
Thanks,
Roger
Roger,
You can still program CVs on the Loksound decoders. The only thing you would need the programmer for would be replacing specific sounds for those that were preloaded by the dealer.
Personally I like the sound of the Loksound decoders. I've also found the low-speed response much better than the Tsunamis.
Besides Tony's Train Exchange, Litchfield Station and Ulrich Models will preload the sound files for you. And their prices are comparable and sometimes a little better than Tony's.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Thanks Tom,
It's the motor control and low speed aspects that got me interested in the Loksound. Will it be necessary to add a capacitor or Loksound power pack to the decoder? I believe the Tsunamis come with a small 220 uf capacitor.
Also, is there any particular brand of speaker that you recommend? I'll need a 1" round speaker.
Thanks for the other shop links.
I ended up adding a home-made keep-alive module (as outlined in the Loksound manual) to my Bowser VO-660 chassis that was outfitted with a Loksound Select decoder:
Although the 2,200uF cap and diode fit inside the cab area, the fit was pretty snug front-to-back. I had to remove the molded plastic cab interior to make it fit. Total cost of module in parts: $2.70, plus S&H. (I bought them from Digi-Key.) Needless to say, I have NO problems with hesitation anymore. TCS makes a very nice keep alive module (KAM series) that works well but it's not inexpensive.
Roger, I would try the Loksound decoder out first w/o installing a keep alive cap. If you experience hesitation, you can always add a cap/module at a later time.
As far as speakers, any good 4 ohm speaker should work fine. You can always ask Steve @ Ulrich Models for his recommendation. He's generally very good about getting back to you the same day. Bruce Petrarca (who used to own and operate Litchfield Station before he sold it) is another good resource. You might be able to contact him via this page.
Any 4 or 8 Ohm speaker will work. I installed a Tsunami boars style in mine and went with a 3/4" speaker. I installed the round clip on the back of the speaker and the sound is great at about 1/2 the volume level. Joe
Rodger.
I have 5 of the Select decoders. They are mainly the hardwire and micro ones. They came with their own speaker but I was able to substitute different size speakers when I bought them. I get mine from Traintek LLC. http://www.traintekllc.com/ I have been dealing with Gary since I got into DCC a looong time ago. I do not have any of the diesel sound sets installed but I am very happy with the steam sound sets. Motor control is incredible. Lighting functions are simple and the headlights dim when stopped.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
To get the sounds in without the Lokprogrammer, you will need to buy them from a dealer who will load sounds for you. Most of them do this as an included service witht he purchase of the decoder. Unless loaded by the seller, the decoders all come with a couple of sample sounds on them and that's it. I haven't checked lately, but the Litchfield Station site, for example, used to have a dropdown with the decoder to select which of the many sound sets you wanted loaded before it shipped. Make sure you get the newest version of the 567 sound, they improved it as well as several of the others, you can listen on their web site. I have a Lokprogrammer so I will be loading the updated Baldwin sounds in my VO-1000. The new 567 non-turbo sound sounds exactly like the 567-equipped GP I rode behind a couple of months ago, much nicer than the Tsunami one I have in a Bowser FT.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I still need to add the keep-alive in mine. It ran perfectly fine testing it at home (but I never have to clean my track, and never have headlight flickers..still don't know what I do that makes it that way, but I'm not complaining). Took it to the club show over the summer, no dice. constant stalling, which was really annoying trying to switch the coal yard with it. Once moving it was generally ok. Slow speed though, and it was not so much fun, and that's after clenaing all the track - most of the track in the yard section is Atlas Code 100, plastic frogs, no power, and there aren't a whole lot of feeders in the 30 feet of modules that make up the yard. I have a short video shuttling back and forth using my iPhone car, for the duration of that I had solid power, except the giant hand STILL comes in the frame as I reach down to operate a ground throw on a switch I forgot to line before moving. I have to process it and get it on Youtube, does a decent job of catching the sounds coming out.
Rogerthat:
I have a couple of points to add to the recommendations.
First, based on my own experience as well as that of others, go with the Loksound Select. Tsunamis can be a bit of a challenge to program whereas the last Loksound that I installed took all of five minutes to set up including the time it took to look up the manual on line.
Second, remember to turn the volume down to about half or even less. Full volume gets annoying really quick and can be hard on the speaker.
Third, as far as 'the best' 1" round speaker, Tony's sells good speakers. Do take the time to read the specs re the actual size of the speaker including the enclosure. If you have exactly one inch of space to work with then you will have to use a speaker smaller than one inch so that the enclosure will fit.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
tstageYou can still program CVs on the Loksound decoders. The only thing you would need the programmer for would be replacing specific sounds for those that were preloaded by the dealer.
It should probably be pointed out that whenever one has a set of sound files loaded on one of these decoders they should make sure/confirm that their supplier has saved these files to the decoder as the new default. If that is not done, and the decoder gets reset, the decoder will revert back to the way it came from the factory, which would be without the sound files that were just loaded on. If that occurs then a Lokprogrammer will be needed, or the decoder takes a trip back to where it was purchased.
Maxman,
Thanks for bring that aspect up. Thankfully, the guys who've programmed my Loksound decoders (Bruce Petrarca @ Litchfield and Steve @ Ulrich Models) have programmed them properly.
rrinkerI still need to add the keep-alive in mine.
Randy,
I'd be more than glad to send you the extra cap and diode I have laying around when I ordered the parts for the keep-alive mod from Digi-Key. If you're interested, let me know...
Maxman.
I have done a few resets of the Select decoders and have not lost any sound sets. Once a sound set is installed it is there for good unless it is rewritten over by another sound set. In other words once it is loaded it can not be removed. During a reset the only defaults is the user selected CVs. Address, lighting function, configuration, motor control, volumes, choices of horns/whistles, bell ring rate and choice of prime mover are some of the CVs that will change in a reset. Sound sets are not added or deleted using CVs.
locoi1saI have done a few resets of the Select decoders and have not lost any sound sets. Once a sound set is installed it is there for good unless it is rewritten over by another sound set. In other words once it is loaded it can not be removed.
Pete:
Sorry, but that is only true sometimes. When the sound sets are loaded to the decoder using the Lokprogrammer and the associated computer program, there is a step where the program asks you if you want to over-write the defaults. If you do this, then the information contained in the sound set becomes the new default. Then if you reset the decoder it will go to the default values, which are now actually the new defaults.
However, if you either forget or neglect to do this step and reset the decoder, it will go back to whatever the original defaults were. Like other people like to say, "don't ask me how I know this".
Definitely go with the new Loksound 567 file. I've installed a number of them for my client's and they absolutely love them !
You can choose between two types within the same file - manual and automatic transitioning !
And when you drop the throttle immediately to speed step 0, the engine goes straight down to idle immediately. I hate the way Tsunamis wind down through each notch step by step. You've been stopped for ten seconds and your engine is still notching down ! - drives me nutz ! Loksounds immediately go to the notch based on the speed speed step, no matter how quick you change it - there's no "stair stepping" through the sound notches to catch up to where your throttle is.
It is truly a pleasure and fun to operate a Loksound decoder as it does what you expect it to do, when you expect it to do it. It keeps up with you - you don't have to wait for it to catch up to you.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
Thanks everyone for all of the responses. I'm pretty sure I will go with the Loksound. Even though my Bachmann GP7 has the 8 pin plug, I will still go with the Select Direct. It will be a couple of weeks before I make the purchase because I have other commitments which will keep me busy. I will report back on my experiences with this decoder once I have it.
One last question. Is there a way to validate that the installed sound set has been set as the default?
Again, thanks for all the help.
Probably not without the Loksound programmer, Roger. Rest assured, if you get a Loksound decoder from a reputable dealer like the one's mentioned (Tony's, Litchfield, Ulrich, etc.), you should have no worries about losing sound files if you ever have to reset the decoder because they'll load and save the sounds correctly for you.
The issue is as simple as selecting a checkbox when wrigint the sound files to the decoder. Once it came to the attention of the US offices of ESU, they promptly sent a note to all dealers reminding them to make the proper setting when loading sounds so a customer reset doesn't wipe out the sounds, so you should be OK with any of the many reputable dealers out there. ANd, should they make a mistake and not set the sounds as default, I think any of the better dealers would quickly correct it for you.
In short - no worries. The warning applies mainly to those who bought them early on, when the dealers and vendors might not have been fully up to speed with all features of the Lokprogrammer software. It really is pretty darn easy - with Selects you are installing full sound sets, not programming every little sound and all the associated code for triggering them. Just have to rememebr - set as default!
maxmanSorry, but that is only true sometimes. When the sound sets are loaded to the decoder using the Lokprogrammer and the associated computer program, there is a step where the program asks you if you want to over-write the defaults. If you do this, then the information contained in the sound set becomes the new default.
This was with the version 2.0 software of the programmer. Since version 4.4.0 the programmer works like this. As soon as you hit write to decoder button a window comes up asking to write data to decoder and gives you a yes or no choice. If you hit the no button then nothing gets written to the decoder. Hitting yes sends the data to the decoder until it is over written by another project on the Select decoders. The version 4 and version 3.5 decoders are different in the fact that individual sounds can be loaded and changed and is possible to eliminate an individual sound from the decoder. It is possible to exit the program without saving any changes you have made to the decoder. (Don't ask me how I know) But the decoder was not phased by it. It still retained all the information and changes before I exited the program. It is easy to get the information back just by restarting the programmer and pushing the read decoder button. Then hit the save button. The older versions of the programmer you had to save often after every change to the decoder. The latest versions is easier and you only need to save once at the end of programming to keep a permanent record on your computer. I have had my share of programmer issues and the latest issue of version 4.4.7 seems very stable and easy to use. The only exception I have with the latest versions is the automatic firmware update of every decoder it sees. While there has been no adverse effects i would still like the choice to firmware changes.
locoi1sa maxmanSorry, but that is only true sometimes. When the sound sets are loaded to the decoder using the Lokprogrammer and the associated computer program, there is a step where the program asks you if you want to over-write the defaults. If you do this, then the information contained in the sound set becomes the new default. This was with the version 2.0 software of the programmer. Since version 4.4.0 the programmer works like this. As soon as you hit write to decoder button a window comes up asking to write data to decoder and gives you a yes or no choice. If you hit the no button then nothing gets written to the decoder. Hitting yes sends the data to the decoder until it is over written by another project on the Select decoders. The version 4 and version 3.5 decoders are different in the fact that individual sounds can be loaded and changed and is possible to eliminate an individual sound from the decoder. It is possible to exit the program without saving any changes you have made to the decoder. (Don't ask me how I know) But the decoder was not phased by it. It still retained all the information and changes before I exited the program. It is easy to get the information back just by restarting the programmer and pushing the read decoder button. Then hit the save button. The older versions of the programmer you had to save often after every change to the decoder. The latest versions is easier and you only need to save once at the end of programming to keep a permanent record on your computer. I have had my share of programmer issues and the latest issue of version 4.4.7 seems very stable and easy to use. The only exception I have with the latest versions is the automatic firmware update of every decoder it sees. While there has been no adverse effects i would still like the choice to firmware changes. Pete
Pete, not sure what you are looking at, but that is not the case. Every version of the 4.0 programmer has that tick box in the pop-up window that asks you if you want to "Overwrite defaults with current values" - then you click either "Next" or "Cancel" If you have ever ticked the default box before, it usually remains ticked as the default.
The 4.0 decoder is the next generation from the 3.5. They are both fully capable " in the fact that individual sounds can be loaded and changed and is possible to eliminate an individual sound from the decoder." It's the current Select decoders that don't have this full featured capabilty. They have a "pre-packaged" sound file which does include multiple bells, horns, etc., but you don't have the capabilities to access the flow charts or add your own files.
The most important element of getting good sound out of either a Loksound or Soundtraxx is the speaker and it's installation with good and in my opinion scatchbuilt(to maximize space/sound) enclosure.
The Soundtraxx is a straightforward install. Also, F11 braking is often overlooked and is great once you learn how to operate with it. I have no idea if Loksound has it.
Richard
The speaker and it's enclosure are always the weakest link in a sound install. Try connecting a 10 inch speaker to a decoder sometime .... all the sound frequencies are in the decoder, the hard part is reproducing them with a tiny speaker.
I've been having great success in making speaker enclosures out of very thin 3-ply plywood. The improvement in sound quality was beyond my expectations in having a much richer sound !
There's a reason your home stereo speakers are in a wood enclosure .... try putting them in a plastic tote box and see how good they sound ! ;)
I received my Loksound Select Direct decoder yesterday, and installed it in my GP7. The sounds and motor control are fantastic on this decoder. Thanks everyone for the responses on this thread.
One more question... When I run the locomotive with the sound muted, I hear a faint high pitch tone that varies with the speed. This is not quite like the buzzing that the Bachmann decoders have at low speeds. I have an NCE decoder in another locomotive that is completely quiet. Is this normal on the Loksounds? You cannot hear it when when the prime mover sounds are un-muted.
LokSound Select decoders are set to a high frequency PWM motor output. The high pitch tone you're hearing is probably because of this. If you find it too annoying you can adjust the frequency higher so it is out of normal hearing range.
The default should be high enough to not hear, but then some people have better hearing range than others. And there might be a resonance with the motor - luckily Loksound has the option to adjust this, so you can play around with CV49, bit 1, and CV124, bit 4. Also read up on the automatic configuration - it runs the loco to determine the optimum settings for the BEMF parameters.
You're not hearing the frequency of the decoder, which is factory defaulted to 40khz - you can't hear that .... maybe your dog.
What you are hearing is the BEMF. To prove this, turn the BEMF off (CV49 = 18) - I'll bet the sound goes away. BEMF creates its own frequency as the inverse voltage pulses are being read back from the motor. I have one motor in an old Stewart engine that sounded just like it had an old first generation decoder in it, with BEMF activated. I just couldn't get rid of it and ended up having to remotor it.
That being said, you lose a lot of the smooth operating characteristics with BEMF turned off. What you need to do is turn down the parameters of the BEMF until the last bit of noise disappears.
You will need to start lowering the values in CV56 (regulation influence), CV55 (regulation parameter "I") and CV139 (regulation parameter "K"). Note the start value in each for your own reference before you start changing anything.
ESU is aware of this phenomenon, and it unfortunately requires a hardware change to fix, no software updates will fix this.
Think that's mostly what CV124, bit 4 is all about - static or dynamic frequency on the BEMF feedback.
Really, before playing with any of the BEMF settings, you should try using the decoder's automatic adjustment.
5.2.4.3. Automatic AdjustmentLokSound Select decoders have an Automatic Motor Tuning Feature. This feature will automatically adjust the Back-EMF in most cases. This is not meant to be a “cure all” solution. This will only get the settings close. There still may need to be some manual adjustments made.In order to use this automatic adjustment you will first need to set CV 54 to a value of 0. Then put your locomotive on the layout and activate F1. Be sure to have plenty of clear space ahead of your locomotive. Your locomotive will quickly take off at full speed and gradually slow down to a stop while reading the motor responses. This will automatically set the load compensation in CVs 52, CV 53, CV 54, and CV 55. From here you can make any other manual adjustments if needed.