Frrykid,
First off,are you using Atlas Switch Machines ?? If you are,they get the're power from the switch machine,the three connections on the switch machine,go to the three connections on the relay..Look at the relay,so the three terminals are on the right of the relay,then count one two,three and the switch machine,with the three terminals on the left,one,two three,,,two being the common and 1 being A and 3 being B,,,And have both pins on the,relay and the switch machine,to the left,,,,the switch control boxes have the're three terminals go to the same three wires on the switch machine,,The two terminals on the left of the control box,is where the AC Power connects to,,16 to 18 volts,,,disconnect any other wires you have connected and try the above..If it does not work,,either you did not wire it right or there is a problem with one of the two devices....They are pretty robust,,,,have never had a problem with them,,if used properly...If it does work correctly,,let me know and I'll . explain how to wire for selective siding control..Lets get this part working right first.......By the way if the pins do not move the same on both units,reverse the 1 and 3 wires on the Snap Relay..
Cheers,
Frank
Assuming that you are using the same pushbutton to throw both the turnout and the snap relay, you may not have enough power to throw both of them simultaneously. This is exacerbated by long runs with thin wire to the turnout itself. You could test this by disconnecting the center wire to the turnout and seeing if you've got enough power to run just the relay.
The best solution is to get or build a Capacitive Discharge circuit. You can buy them commercially (the Snapper is one model) or google up a circuit and build it yourself. It's basically just two resistors and two capacitors. A CD circuit stores energy in a capacitor, and then releases it all at once when you push the button, giving you a much more robust throw. In addition, it protects the switch machines by limiting the current after that initial rush, in case the pushbutton sticks in the ON position.
Another possibility - how is the Snap Relay mounted? Like the snap switch machines, these should only be mounted horizontally. The relays and machines don't have enough power to move the slug up and down against gravity.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MR.B,
You are correct,about the power needed,,I did not bring that up,,,recommended power supply for them to work properly is, 25 watt,,,2 amp,power supply,16 to 18 volt AC..
zstripe If it does work correctly,,let me know /p>
If it does work correctly,,let me know /p>
MisterBeasleyAssuming that you are using the same pushbutton to throw both the turnout and the snap relay, you may not have enough power to throw both of them simultaneously. This is exacerbated by long runs with thin wire to the turnout itself. You could test this by disconnecting the center wire to the turnout and seeing if you've got enough power to run just the relay. The best solution is to get or build a Capacitive Discharge circuit. You can buy them commercially (the Snapper is one model) or google up a circuit and build it yourself. It's basically just two resistors and two capacitors. A CD circuit stores energy in a capacitor, and then releases it all at once when you push the button, giving you a much more robust throw. In addition, it protects the switch machines by limiting the current after that initial rush, in case the pushbutton sticks in the ON position.
FRRYKID,
I believe then that is your problem..If you read my post after MrB's,I posted what the recommended power supply for them to work properly,,,,,25 watt (2amp) 16 to 18 volts AC,,,,A power pack from a train set is lucky to be 1amp.....Let us know when you get going again,,if you need help..
The capacitor discharge unit will solve the problem without replacing the power pack. Last time I had snap-switches and solenoid motors, I ran a home made CD unit off the old train set power pack which was lucky if it put out half an amp (N scale train set pack). No problems.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Randy,
That is a great,idea,,,but he is using that power pack,as one of the cabs,in a two cab control system..
Still should be OK, because the design od a CD unit only allows a small amount of current to flow when the button is held down anyway - to keep from buring out the solenoids, but it also means the unit doesn;t draw much power from the power pack. Some have a bypass transistor to speed chargine, that would put enough of a hit on it to cause the train it was running to momentarily slow down, but the super simple type without the fast recharge shouldn;t affect it the same as just having the switch machine hooked right to the power pack.
I believe 18 to 20 gauge wire should be sufficient,,I don't use a CD unit,so I can't attest to the instructions,,but I will assume,there should be...There is no draw of power from the power pack,until the switches,are used..
Doesn't need any special heavier than usual wire, back then I only ever used the spools of 3-conductor wire they sold in the hobby shop and that was maybe #20.
A commercial unit will have hookup instructions, but usually it's fairly obvious. There are no more than 4 terminals - two are the input and hook to the power pack, 2 are the output and hook to your switch control buttons.
I have one home-made CD unit. It runs off an old, old power pack, and it drives 30 or more turnouts all over my layout.
One day, I found none of my turnouts were working. I traced the problem to s stuck toggle on a control panel. I put it back to the center position and everything was fine. If I hadn't been using a CD circuit, that switch machine would have been fried. The CD circuit paid for itself that day.
Misterbeasly
you mention in an other post that you had used a circuit from Ken Stapleton to control turnouts that provided LEDs for panel display does this circuit work with snap switches ? I tried with Ken's circuit but the atlas snap switches seemed to over heat and melt-- I used a pc power supply -- it is possible that the DC output is not clean enough and I need a better regulated power supply ?
Russ B.
Russ,
What are you using to control the switches??An Atlas push button switch??The only thing that would melt,one of those dual coil motors is a stuck button,or constant current to them..They are supposed to have a momentary current...The Power source,must be,16 to 18 volts,AC or DC..
I'll take a different tact.
Get rid of the Atlas Snap Relays and use Tortoises.
They are much more reliable.
Rich
Alton Junction
Different,poster,,different problem,,,Snap Switch,,Snap Relay,,two different animules..
Yeah, but if he gets rid of the Atlas Snap Switch then he doesn't need the Atlas Snap Relay.
I agree,but,he is talking about the capacitive discharge circuit,melting his switch motor..You have to remember,,this is a different guy..We don't know what he has going on yet !
That's true, and we may not hear back from him for days or weeks since he is suffering from Layout Separation Anxiety.
RusstyB Misterbeasly you mention in an other post that you had used a circuit from Ken Stapleton to control turnouts that provided LEDs for panel display does this circuit work with snap switches ? I tried with Ken's circuit but the atlas snap switches seemed to over heat and melt-- I used a pc power supply -- it is possible that the DC output is not clean enough and I need a better regulated power supply ? Russ B.
I do have a couple of these on my layout. I use them with Atlas snap-switches. I have no problems with them.
But, something is wrong with yours. Assuming you've got the right units (there are several models) and they're wired correctly, they should only be putting out a pulse and then no more current should flow once the machine is thrown. I use an 8-volt wall wart to drive mine. If anything, the throw is a bit wimpy, nothing like the solid snap I get with the CD circuit. A PC power supply may be overkill. Have you stepped down the voltage, or is there an appropriate output right out of the supply?
By "Ken Stapleton circuit" I assume you mean the 751D. A PC power supply is going to be quite clean on the output, although with light or no load they tend to not regulate well. However, on every one I've tried (a bunch), the poor regulation with no load normally results in the +12V output being LOW, not high. The +5V tends to run high. So that shouldn't be your issue. +12 being low is around 11.5 on the ones I've tried.
Did you buy the actual units, or did you make your own following Ken's schematic? If you built from Ken's kits, make sure you didn't mix up the 10K and 1K resistors, and that the capacitors are in the correct polarity. Looking over Ken's site, I can't see much that would cause the transistors to stay on, which is the only way there would be continuous current through the coils to melt them. Also, the MOSFETs used are static sensitive so if you didn't disrcharge yourself before touching them you could have damaged one or more of them.
I did had the same problem with the snap relay.
i really like the foot print of those, very tiny.
when i switch the turnout the relay would not operated properly and the little black arm did not move to the end. The problem was mecanical and i open the relay. Open it when no screws are attach to the relay. In the back of the relay there is a little slot for prying the back out. Nothing scary there. First the plunger was very dry and i did put graphite in there.The little brass lever attach to the plunger is bended 90 degres to pull and push the plastic square where the spring blade are attach. When you apply voltage to the relay this little blade goes underneath the square contact holder ( black plastic sliding in enclosure ).That little brass lever with 90 degres bend is too short. I did use long nose plier to make it a little longer at the bend. So when the relay is activate even if there is space between the plastic square and the housing the brass arm cannot go underneath and it is pulling flawlessly. While this thing is open i did put a little dab of oil between housing and black contact holder. This hole thing took me a couple minutes only. Snap in the back cover and wow.