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Wiring a double crossover for DCC

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Wiring a double crossover for DCC
Posted by SMOKING TRAIN on Friday, September 6, 2013 12:42 PM
I am enlarging my layout to include a Double Crossover and I need some help on how to wire it. Thanks in advance Terry
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Posted by Trainman Barrett on Friday, September 6, 2013 2:02 PM

Keep all "A" Tracks A and "B" Tracks B.  Wire frogs with auto reverse or get insulfrogs so they don't need wiring.  I would think it's as simple as that?  I'd also wire the tortoises/throw motors in pairs so when 1 throws, the corresponding one throws too.

  Hope that helps.

TrainmanBarrett

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, September 7, 2013 4:28 AM

What brand of double crossover is it?

Is your layout DC or DCC?

Tell us more about your track plan.  Is the double crossover part of a reversing section or are both tracks matching polarity?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, September 7, 2013 5:09 AM

You should find this helpful..

cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/21927.aspx?sort=ASC&pi314=2

Cheers,

Frank

Edit; I did something wrong again,link won't work

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, September 7, 2013 5:20 AM

Anyway,,there is an in depth discussion,on this under,,Wiring Problem's,in the Forums..07,2013..

Cheers,

Frank Sad

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Posted by SMOKING TRAIN on Sunday, September 8, 2013 3:03 PM
My layout is DCC and it is a parallel run. I don't know what brand of Double Crossover I will purchase. Do you have a suggestion. One reply said I needed a Insulfrog type.
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Posted by zstripe on Sunday, September 8, 2013 3:34 PM

Smoking Train,

PLEASE,,,read the thread,on Switch Wiring Problem's,in the Electronics and DCC,,,You will find your answers there,,,with diagrams,,,that is one reason,I revived the thread,,,,basically,for your benefit,also others,that have the same questions..There is a lot of conversation there,,,but the answers are there..

Cheers, Bang Head

Frank

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, September 8, 2013 3:59 PM

Trainman Barrett

Keep all "A" Tracks A and "B" Tracks B.  Wire frogs with auto reverse or get insulfrogs so they don't need wiring.  I would think it's as simple as that?  I'd also wire the tortoises/throw motors in pairs so when 1 throws, the corresponding one throws too.

  Hope that helps.

TrainmanBarrett

No. On the route of the LION it is more complicated than that.

One track is eastbound, and the other track is westbound.  North of the crossover is a two track terminal, south of the crossover is the railroad. the track that goes out runs for 9 miles, yes, but then it is the same one coming back.

GROUND (-) is on the left or inside rails, and POWER (+) is on the right or outside rails.

The terminal tracks receive power from the mainline according to the alignment of the switches. Thus the crossing needs to be isolated and powered according to the route the train will take.

ACTUALLY, the LION cheated, him does not power the double crossover at all. 300' long subway trains with 48 wheel pickup are not all that fussy and so the entire crossing is unpowered.

WTH: LIRR has 600' power gaps in Penn Station.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, September 8, 2013 4:03 PM

SMOKING TRAIN
My layout is DCC and it is a parallel run. I don't know what brand of Double Crossover I will purchase. Do you have a suggestion. One reply said I needed a Insulfrog type.

Since they are parallel tracks, both powered in the same direction, the point is moot, especially in DCC, but my DC layout pretends to be DCC as far as power to the tracks are concerned.

The crossing that I spoke of above is a special case, all of the other crossings are on parallel tracks, and I do not bother with gaps or other issues, it is all the same GROUND on the LEFT rail and POWER on the RIGHT rail.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, September 8, 2013 4:14 PM

SMOKING TRAIN
My layout is DCC and it is a parallel run. I don't know what brand of Double Crossover I will purchase. Do you have a suggestion. One reply said I needed a Insulfrog type.

If the tracks are parallel and there are no reversing sections that the double crossover will be part of, then the wiring is straight forward.  Just be sure to add feeder wires to all four ends of the double crossover.

The Walthers Shinohara double crossover is DCC Friendly and will do quite fine. I have two of them on my layout.

Are you using Code 83 track?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by zstripe on Sunday, September 8, 2013 4:24 PM

He didn't mention any track,he is using and don't have the DB crossover yet...He asked for suggestions..for one..He can use..Again need more info..

Cheers,

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, September 9, 2013 3:49 AM

zstripe

He didn't mention any track,he is using and don't have the DB crossover yet...He asked for suggestions..for one..He can use..Again need more info..

Cheers,

Frank

Yeah, I agree, Frank.

With all due respect to the OP, some people just don't know how to use the forums to their benefit.

Not enough info, failure to follow up, insufficient info when following up, etc.

Waddya gonna do?

Rich

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Posted by SMOKING TRAIN on Monday, September 9, 2013 8:41 AM
Thanks Rich, yours is the best advise yet. My layout is all Code 100, except for turn-out runs.
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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, September 9, 2013 8:46 AM

SMOKING TRAIN
Thanks Rich, yours is the best advise yet. My layout is all Code 100, except for turn-out runs.

Smoking Train, if you can provide a track diagram for your expanded layout, there may be some other suggestions that we can make.

Can you post a track diagram?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by SMOKING TRAIN on Monday, September 9, 2013 9:02 AM
Sorry, I do not have a diagram if my layout. All I can tell you is it is in a horse shoe shape.
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Posted by BroadwayLion on Monday, September 9, 2013 9:32 AM

zstripe

He didn't mention any track,he is using and don't have the DB crossover yet...He asked for suggestions..for one..He can use..Again need more info..

Cheers,

Frank

Aye there is the issue! The one double cross over at 242nd street is a Walther's product, but the others on my layout were all bench made from separate components. (4 switches and a crossing).

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, September 9, 2013 9:32 AM

SMOKING TRAIN
Sorry, I do not have a diagram if my layout. All I can tell you is it is in a horse shoe shape.

LOL

OK, we will wait for Frank to work that one out for us.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by SMOKING TRAIN on Monday, September 9, 2013 11:10 AM
my local hobby shop owner said there is no double crossovers that are DCC friendly. The shop owner suggested 4 turn-outs and a cross-over track to accomplish this problem. Does shinohara make a double cross-over that is DCC friendly ??????????????
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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, September 9, 2013 11:19 AM

Well, you could make a double crossover out of four turnouts, but a manufactured double crossover is much more elegant.

Walthers Shinohara makes a DCC Friendly double crossover, but it is Code 83.

Shinohara makes a double crossover in Code 100, but it is not listed as "DCC Friendly".

However, I believe that the Shinohara Code 100 double crossover would work on a DCC layout with little or no modifications.

Can anyone comment on this?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Monday, September 9, 2013 11:48 AM

DCC Friendly depends on your layout and what you are trying to do.

LION has several cross overs that work between the local and the express tracks either east bound or west bound but of course not both. No chance to change from an east track to a west track. THAT SHOULD WORK NO MATTER WHAT!

LION has other crossover between the Northbound track and the Southbound track. It is at a terminal at the end of the line. Some trains across the device are northbound, others are southbound. THIS CAN BE A PROBLEM, no matter what! But that is a problem of the reversing loop. Never mind that the loop is actually the mane lion and that it is nine miles long: Electrically it still looks like a loop.

Now it depends on how you wire it. As I said the LOOP is the MANE LION, that is where the power is applied, the terminal tracks are electrically DEAD until something is aligned to or from that track. Since it is part of the terminal, it is controlled by the tower, and power is aligned with the tracks.

You too can make the point moot. You isolate ALL OF THE RAILS on the entire crossover, and then wire the crossover as a single entity according to the track alignment. You may need some relays to figure this out, but yes, it can be done. All it takes is a little thought.

But of course LIONS have big furry paws and short tempers. Him cheated by not wiring the crossover at all. All you need is four foot long trains with 48 wheel pickup.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by Trainman Barrett on Monday, September 9, 2013 1:11 PM

Terry,

  I am including a you tube video link that might help you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHtK5uf0IHo   When wiring your track, Eastbound and west bound don't play into it as that is handled by the controller of your DCC system.  Decide on a non-turnout location which track will be A Track and which track will be B Track.  Then follow that around with your finger and make sure each set of 2 tracks maintains the A-B setup.  If at some point they do not, or cannot, then you need an auto reversing unit.  An example would be a wye turnout that comes back on itself.  The loop portion of that trackage would need to be insulated from the rest and an auto reverser put on that loop.  The difference in frogs is that some frogs are live and get their current from the moving rail in the turnout...some are neutral and have no current.  All can be wired to handle current as you decide......always remembering the above track A-B in line or an auto reverser.

  Hope this makes sense and helps

TrainmanBarrett

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Posted by Trainman Barrett on Monday, September 9, 2013 1:19 PM

Terry,

  One clarification.  when I said A -Track and B-Track,  I mean A-Rail and B-Rail.  Both together make up the "track".  Sorry

TrainmanBarrett

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Posted by zstripe on Monday, September 9, 2013 1:44 PM

richhotrain

SMOKING TRAIN
Sorry, I do not have a diagram if my layout. All I can tell you is it is in a horse shoe shape.

LOL

OK, we will wait for Frank to work that one out for us.

Rich

Rich,

My guess,is that you don't remember,the in-depth discussion,that you partook in, July 25,2013..It was about,wiring a double crossover turnout, (Peco)...Switch Wiring Problems,,,In Electronics and DCC..Whistling

Cheers,

Frank

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Posted by zstripe on Monday, September 9, 2013 1:51 PM

Rich,

I said Peco,,but I believe it was ME Electro frog turnouts..

Cheers,

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, September 9, 2013 4:23 PM

No idea, Frank.  Send me a link.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by zstripe on Monday, September 9, 2013 4:33 PM

richhotrain

No idea, Frank.  Send me a link.

Rich

Rich,

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/219427.aspx

Cheers,

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, September 9, 2013 4:38 PM

Let me ask this.

Is the Shinohara Code 100 double crossover a power routing section of track?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by zstripe on Monday, September 9, 2013 4:46 PM

Rich,

I believe it is,,,but I never used them,,only curved turnouts..

Cheers,

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, September 9, 2013 4:52 PM

Frank,

I'm thinking you are right.

I read on one forum that a guy painted the frogs to solve the problem.

Using a double crossover on a Code 100 DCC powered layout can be a nightmare.

Seems like the best solutions for the OP are to either go with 4 turnouts or pick up a Walthers Shinohara Code 83 double crossover which is DCC friendly.  Just shim it to fit in place with Code 100 adjoining tracks.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by zstripe on Monday, September 9, 2013 5:10 PM

Rich,

I believe you have to cut gaps,in some rails also and have to have the switch machines throw the points at the same time,for route change..You have to do that on all crossovers anyway...If it were my choice,,I would get one that was easy to wire..

Cheers,

Frank

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