Looking for some help.Rather new to all of this, but want to do it right.
We are building the Yardmaster Layout HO-10.
If you have the selector switches, do you still need the C common wire?
And if so, does 1c through 7c get wired individually or looped?
This is probably not my last question, but it is for now.
Thanks!
BWMUNDRTKR,
I'll try to help you out,,,but I'm guessing,your building an Atlas common wire layout,for your talking about their components...First off is it wired for a two cab system,two separate power packs??The reason I ask is because,that is the only reason you would use a selector and there is no common wire connection to it.. You mention 1c through 7c,,if those are blocks,,,one wire from the top terminal of that switch must go to each of those blocks,,no other wire...I don't get what you mean by looped?
Cheers
Frank
Also from your description,it is a DC Layout,,,,I hope so, for common rail wiring won't work on a DCC layout..
Cheers,
If you are using DC, I can share a diagram. Or is this what you are doing?
DCCWiringHO 10.pdf
Jim
Jim,
Thanks for posting that diagram,,should help him a lot,,,,maybe?
Frank,
Like you, the first thing I thought about was common rail DC. But Atlas does have this diagram on their site for the Yardmaster layout.........................
Frank,Yes, its a 2 cab system with 2 separate power packs.There are 7 blocks for power.7 individual power wires go from the selectors to the blocks.And then it says to run a common lead to the common rail blocks.I mean, I would assume that this wire goes to each individual block using a separate wire.The diagram in my Atlas book sort of makes it look like I should use one wire going from block to block.That's what I mean by a loop, like power in your house.Here is a diagram: http://www.atlasrr.com/code100web/images/10010.jpg
Thanks For Your Help
That's what I thought,from your use of a selector,,,,,On a common rail wire layout system,,,one rail is constant,,no insulated joiners on that rail at all,,,On your two power packs,A&B,make sure both reversing switches are set the same,,like both to the left,,take one terminal lead on the variable throttle output,from cab A and connect a wire to cab B's output terminal,,from there tap a wire on that wire that you just connected to the power packs,,,that wire goes to the common rail side of your track..The other remaining output terminal on power pack A,goes to the top left side of the selector switch,,cab B output terminal,goes to the bottom left side of the selector switch,,,,,the top terminals of the selector,,go to the insulated blocks that you have created,,,1c through 7c,,,,then you should have one empty,terminal left on the second selector.....With practice,,you should be able to run,one train behind the other,with a minimum of two blocks apart,,,.but that's another story...
I'll help as much as I can,,so will others,,,now that we know what you're doing..
I did not think of this until I posted,,the common wire,can be daisy chained on your common rail,to improve electrical current flow from rail joiners,,just use the wire from your connection of the two power packs,,they don't have to be separate wires..
Here is the DC version. Althought not shown on this simplified version, you want a common rail connection in every block. A good way is to use a buss wire and attach feeders directly to it.
You almost always SHOULD run multiple feeds to the common rail in those Atlas plans. There will be much improved electrical performance. As drawn, they rely on the rail joiners to complete the circuit on the common rail, which if there is just one single feeder as shown on their wiring diagrams, can mean a lack of power in many places.
I was never a big fan of the common rail wiring, but you don;t have much choice if sticking witht he Atlas electricla components. The next best thing is to provide feeders on the common rail for every block - they just all lump together on one single connection back to the control box components. You can use a terminal strip to link each wire to one, or just solder the feeders to the main wire.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Thanks Frank, Jim & Randy.I think I have it down now.But if I don't...you'll be the first know!
Thanks Again,Brad
Brad,
Good Luck,,,Have Fun,,,,,,By the way,Thanks for including your name,,,,,,I was getting tired of typing in your screen name,,,,LOL..
Well, I thought I did everything just right.But the train engines don't move.The switches move work well.Every so often an engine will creep about an inch and stop.Its like theres no or not enough power.Did I use the wrong wire?I still don't know if I did the common wiring right.There are 7 blocks that are wired individually that then come together,and then split to the 2 power packs.
Totally Lost Now,Brad
It sounds like your power pack(s) are overloaded by a short and their internal circuit breakers are shutting them down.
Go back and check all of your wiring to make sure you didn't cross the wires to one of the blocks. If your two power packs are not in phase with each other, i.e, both set to the same polarity, that can also create a short.
Try disconnecting one power pack and see if a train will run. Then reconnect that one and disconnect the other. If the short is still there. the wiring between the point where the two power packs connect and the wires to each track is where the short is occurring.
The only way to know which track is wired wrong is to disconnect every one of them and start reconnecting one at a time and testing to see if a train will run after each and every connection is made. When a wire is connected that causes the short to return, reverse those connections to the track and try again.
Set each block to the center off position. switch one block to power pack A, put the loco there, see if it works. Try each block this way. Try each one, one at a time, with power pack B.
You DID put insulated joiners in where indicated on the plan, right?
How many engines are on the layout?
Randy,
Insulated Joiners?I used regular joiners. Metal ones.Here are some pics, if it helps:
I wired this thing exactly as this diagram.But, maybe I didn't.
Thanks!Brad
Everywhere on the track plan where there is a block outline on the rail - that needs to be an insulated joiner to divide the layout into blocks. If you used metal joiners everywhere, and no plastic one, as soon as you turn any one Selector switch to one cab postion, it powers the entire layout. If you turn any other switch to the other power pack, you have both power packs wired in parallel to each other, or in reverse parallel to each other, depending on the direction it's set for. This is a huge no-no.
If you turn all the Selector switches to say the up postion, you should be able to run one train with the one power pack, but that's it, without the insualted joiners.
An example of where an insulated joiner should be looks like right under Cab B, just to the left of the straight route for that turnout there, on the rail closest to the top of the diagram.
I do see they mention connecting a common to each of the track feeds - old Atlas plan books often showed just one common rail connection for the entire layout. It's good that they've caught on and realized that ins't the best for reliable operation.
It's not the source of your problem, but I'd consider slightly heavier wire than that telephone wire it appears you've used.
The insulated joiners are plastic?And they only go on 1 side, the side the little block is on?I have tried moving the selectors and nothing worked except the power pack doesn't overload.What is the best wire to use?I just used what the local hobby shop had on hand.
You Guys are doing such a fine job,,,,,but I believe,,if he has to ask about insulated rail joiners,,,,he didn't use them,,,,and there is his problem...it would appear..
To me it sounds like he has a couple of problems. One is the missing insulated joiners.
But Randy is correct when he states the layout should still operate if all the selectors are in the same direction. He may have a crossed feeder somewhere on the layout.
Have you (OP) looked at YouTube yet for "How to" videos? I find YouTube is an often under used resource for model railroaders. Your exact layout plan is probably not on YouTube, but the basic fundamentals of DC block wiring are the same regardless of the layout. For example, I found this video right off the bat when I did a search on YouTube for "DC block wiring for model railroads":
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W73o6g2zjaQ
I only watched the first few minutes but it seems informative enough, and often watching someone do something is easier then reading about how to do something. If that video doesn't work for you, try the others listed on YouTube when you do your search.
Hope this helps.
Happy modeling!
Don.
"Ladies and gentlemen, I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that both engines have failed, and we will be stuck here for some time. The good news is that you decided to take the train and not fly."
If you push all the switches up, like you have in the middle picture - whichever power pack is connected to the top terminal on the side of the Selectros should be able to run a train. The other power pack should not be indicating any sort of overload as it would not be connected to the track in any way.
If you still can;t run a train, then indeed you probably have crossed the feeder wire with the common wire at one of the terminal tracks. If each track connection is an actual terminal track section, and if going around the layout, the part where you connect the wires is always on the same side of the track, then the common wire should always be on same terminal of the terminal section, at every connection. If any one is backwards, you have a short. The rail that connects back to the Selector switches is the one that needs the plastic insulated joiners where indicated on the plan. Without those, there is no chance of being able to use the two power packs and run two trains.
Did you build the layout exactly, using the specified track, or did you use some other brands of track components besides Atlas? If you used and Peco turnouts instead of all Atlas, there may be some additional wiring considerations depending on which Pecom turnouts you used.
Assuming it's built per the product list provided witht he layout diagram in the book, then it most definitely should be able to run one train over the entire route even if you forgot the insualted joiners. Since it looks like you connected wires with wire nuts, you should be able to break things down and try one section at a time. Disconnect all those common wires, then hook up the one that goes to the section controlled by switch 1 on the first Selector. Set all others to off, put a loco on the terminal section controlled by that switch, and see if it runs. Then go to the next section, add that common wire, and turn that Selector on. Keep going until you hook up one and everything stops - that will be the one with the fault. That's usually the way to hook it up in the first place - one block at a time, and test each one as you hook it up.
I'd recommend something along the lines of #18 or #20 wire, in two colors - make all the common side one color, and the 'hot' side another color. #20 always surved well back in my 4x8 days, with no power drops.
Yes,,,Randy is correct,and with a bunch of wires,all different colors,it is easy to make a mistake,when wiring the blocks...
Thank You Everyone For Your Help!I can't believe how much time everyone is taking for me!
One question, the insulated joiner goes exactly where the diagram shows, and on one side only, the 'hot' side, right?
I will add these and then see what happens.I'll then go block by block with the existing wire to see if I can get it going.I'd like to just get this thing going, but even if I do, I'm going to totally rewire the entire layout with proper wire.No more fooling around with this little stuff.
And should the switches have better wire? Does it matter, or should I just do it all?
I want this to be as first class as possible so it lasts my son the rest of his life.I really liked the video Don sent me.I have been looking on YouTube but I guess I wasn't searching correctly.
Thanks again and talk to everyone soon,Brad
If the switches snap with some authority, they wire there is probably fine. What would help out there is a capcitor discharge power supply. It's a simpel electroniccircuit to build, but you can buy commercial ones for pretty cheap, the Circuitron Snapper is one such device. It goes between the power pack and the line of switch control boxes. What it does is give a high power but short duration pulse to move the point motors, but it is limited in current so that if one of those blue buttons sticks, or you hold it down too long, it won;t burn out the switch machine. Also, it will help keep the train controlled by whichever power pack you have the switch machines hooked to from slowing down momentarily when you operate one.
Brad, I'm a little late in addressing your problem, but if it still exists, may I suggest you purchase an ATLAS CONTROLLER and insert it between your two power packs and the left-most Selector in your wiring diagram, wiring both wires from one power pack's variable DC outlets to the top two connections on the left side of the Controller, and the second power pack leads from the variable DC outlets to the bottom two connections on the left side of the Controller. You will notice the Controller has one Common connection at the top beside the Rev Loop connections. This is the outlet for the COMMON connection that goes to the non-insulated rail (I use the inside rail & White wiring for this circuit) and works for both power packs. You use the Selector switches to select the power for each block, connected to the outlet(s) 1 - 7 with black, red, or some other non-white wire. You should use the Connector to change direction for each power pack, not the direction switch on either power pack. Hope you can use the above suggestions, and that you have a Happy MR experience. Best Wishes, JWH
Whoops!!! Brad, I forgot to tell you to connect the Controller to the left-most selector with the screws and metal jumpers supplied with them. Also be sure that the insulation and the 1 -7 wires are all emplaced on the outside rail (if you put the Common connections to the inside rail). Check to see that each block has an insulated joiner at both ends, and that it has a power (Hot) wire connected to it from the Selector. I will be monitoring this post in case you have more questions. Again, Best Wishes...JWH
JWH,
He does not need a Controller,for his track plan..It will work fine with the selector's...The Controller's are used basically,for Wye's and Turn Tables. For common rail wiring...Period..