I forgot to mention that Soundtraxx does provide instructions for installing the board and speaker. It is on their webpage under the subject of which board and speaker for which engine. The instruction is even complete with pictures which us older folk can follow.
rrinker In my case, it's more that Tsunami failed to WOW me (hmm, TCS? They do sound good in their demo videos, especially the BEMF controlled load dependent chuffs). The first one I heard was when they first released the, at their booth at the NTS. Granted, giant venua and lots of people, but even with my ear right up near the On30 demo loco, the whistle was all but inaudible. I already had a steamer with a Loksound, and it was very nice. ALso playe with some QSI, steam and diesel, they all sounded good. FInally got a Tsuanmi, not impressed - it wasn;t all that much better than the DSD-LC I picked up a few years prior, but then I have that runnign a GIANT speaker since it's in an F unit dummy and there was lots of room for a large speaker. After checkign that Loksound has sounds available for everything I'd need for my layout, I made the decision to go exclusively Loksound for all new sound locos. I picked upa Loksound Programmer to configure them, and a Select to mess around with, and I also picked up a Bowser Baldwin sound chassis which has a Loksound in it. Plus my existing PCM steamers. The motor control is absolutelt fantastic, and the sounds are all clear and of high quality. Plus there are no issues with a certains ound not available because that decoder is out of stock - the decoders are all the same and you load in whatever sounds you need. I'm not even all that interested in recording my own sounds, I simply don't have the access to real trains to do that, plus I don;t model modern stuff anyway. Just the straight up swap of a pre-defined sound set is good enough for me. Oh yeah, they cost less than Tsunami, too. Not by much, but every few bucks counts when doing a large fleet. --Randy
In my case, it's more that Tsunami failed to WOW me (hmm, TCS? They do sound good in their demo videos, especially the BEMF controlled load dependent chuffs). The first one I heard was when they first released the, at their booth at the NTS. Granted, giant venua and lots of people, but even with my ear right up near the On30 demo loco, the whistle was all but inaudible. I already had a steamer with a Loksound, and it was very nice. ALso playe with some QSI, steam and diesel, they all sounded good. FInally got a Tsuanmi, not impressed - it wasn;t all that much better than the DSD-LC I picked up a few years prior, but then I have that runnign a GIANT speaker since it's in an F unit dummy and there was lots of room for a large speaker. After checkign that Loksound has sounds available for everything I'd need for my layout, I made the decision to go exclusively Loksound for all new sound locos. I picked upa Loksound Programmer to configure them, and a Select to mess around with, and I also picked up a Bowser Baldwin sound chassis which has a Loksound in it. Plus my existing PCM steamers. The motor control is absolutelt fantastic, and the sounds are all clear and of high quality. Plus there are no issues with a certains ound not available because that decoder is out of stock - the decoders are all the same and you load in whatever sounds you need. I'm not even all that interested in recording my own sounds, I simply don't have the access to real trains to do that, plus I don;t model modern stuff anyway. Just the straight up swap of a pre-defined sound set is good enough for me.
Oh yeah, they cost less than Tsunami, too. Not by much, but every few bucks counts when doing a large fleet.
--Randy
At my age (pushing 74) - and this being my retirement/last layout build - longevity comes into play with my model RR decisions - and the extent to which I get into DCC. When I first got into the hobby in the early 70's my preference/focus was post 40's early 50's steam. The general quality wasn't anything like today meaning the 4-6-2's, 0-4-0 switchers, etc., looked nice but like today's Hollywood botoxed sweet young things they were high maintenance to keep running .. for me anyway.
Finally got tired of messing with the mechanics, like, get them to run downgrade with the least amount of "lurching" because of the inherent slop in the worm gear drive. Can't speak to how well the brass stuff ran - or didn't 'cause I couldn't afford them anyway.
So....I switched to all diesel beginning with the early release Atlas RS3 (bought one then a second one after I found out how good they ran) followed by a half dozen or more blue box Athearn switchers, GP9's, F7's, etc..
When we decided to move into a condo that ended my then latest 15 year layout in progress build which all but the hardware is in train heaven now. We've been in our condo going on 6 years and it's taken this long to get back to a point where I can run trains and ready to start the scenery phase when colder weather sets in again. I debated for months whether to stay with my old Hogger tethered DC control (and run my stable of DC diesels) or switch into DCC and the costs inherent for a control system, DCC engines, etc.
So.....here I am a novice once more with all things DCC. At this stage where time is a factor for me - and now after what I just experienced with this decoder install I've learned for a relative comparable cost for a decoder, speaker, enclosure, LED's, etc., I can buy a fully functional DCC engine with all the bells and whistles (dang....pun again...). For instance - the BLI EMD NW2 switcher I just got today from Trainstuff/Klein for $150 that runs and sounds fantastic....and puts the $40 cheaper Bachmann "Sound Value" crippled Soundtraxx decoder DCC engines to shame that I bought not knowing any better at the time....
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Over50 The more I read of Loksound decoders the better they sound...no pun intended.
The more I read of Loksound decoders the better they sound...no pun intended.
Randy will back me on this .... that WOULD be "pun intended" ! I've converted a lot of my diehard Soundtraxx clients over to Loksound .... not one of them has been disappointed.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
HAHAHAHAHAHA.....yeah, you got a point there...
Over50 In other words, once you had the decoder installed you applied power to the engine/decoder and set the CV for maximum sound to half before wiring in the speaker. Learning from experience....what a concept..
In other words, once you had the decoder installed you applied power to the engine/decoder and set the CV for maximum sound to half before wiring in the speaker. Learning from experience....what a concept..
With Soundtraxx, yes - as the sound starts at power up. With Loksound, the sound is off at power-up, so no problem wiring the speaker first.
Over50 Mark R. Over50 Whatever, as Mark said....tackling one of the hardest conversions with a first attempt proved to be one heck of a learning experience....and patience tester....in spades.... The RS-3 is probably in the middle of the difficulty scale... Mark. Man, no sympathy whatsoever! You sure bursted my bubble....
Mark R. Over50 Whatever, as Mark said....tackling one of the hardest conversions with a first attempt proved to be one heck of a learning experience....and patience tester....in spades.... The RS-3 is probably in the middle of the difficulty scale... Mark.
Over50 Whatever, as Mark said....tackling one of the hardest conversions with a first attempt proved to be one heck of a learning experience....and patience tester....in spades....
Whatever, as Mark said....tackling one of the hardest conversions with a first attempt proved to be one heck of a learning experience....and patience tester....in spades....
The RS-3 is probably in the middle of the difficulty scale...
Man, no sympathy whatsoever! You sure bursted my bubble....
No sympathy ??? - Why do you think I hung around for four pages ? Wasn't gonna let you go when you were that close !
Mark R. Over50 Mark...Yes, it's an 8 ohm QSI speaker.. When I first started doing installs, I blew more than my fair share of speakers. I got in the habit of turning the volume to 50% before I ever tested it. The factory setting is at 100% which is way louder than I will ever set it to. Loksound sets theirs to 125% ! (don't ask how that works). Much safer to start low and bring it up rather than risk blowing the coil in your speaker. Mark.
Over50 Mark...Yes, it's an 8 ohm QSI speaker..
Mark...Yes, it's an 8 ohm QSI speaker..
When I first started doing installs, I blew more than my fair share of speakers. I got in the habit of turning the volume to 50% before I ever tested it. The factory setting is at 100% which is way louder than I will ever set it to. Loksound sets theirs to 125% ! (don't ask how that works). Much safer to start low and bring it up rather than risk blowing the coil in your speaker.
Just to add (it just occurred to me) the bell sound is clear and distinct - and was too loud for my tastes and I set it at half volume plus adjusted the overall max sound level to a half point.
The RS-3 is probably in the middle of the difficulty scale, but still, you learned a lot on this install. You have to get really creative sometimes - every one is going to be a bit different. Wait until you get to some older switchers where the entire interior is one huge chunk of metal !
Mark...Yes, it's an 8 ohm QSI speaker.. And I'm familiar with what a damaged voice coil sounds like (or over driven). My thinking is the crackle sound would be near constant if the voice coil was damaged or over driven.
The only sure check would be to wire to another speaker....which I'd have to buy....then open it back up, unsolder the existing speaker, clip or solder the wires of the new speaker to the board ...ARRRRRGGGHHHH....
rrinker Perfect, now I'm all set to do mine. I have about 6 Atlas ones to do, if I put sound in them all, by the time I do the last one I should be able to do it with my eyes closed. I'll have to measure the Loksound speaker I have, I'm pretty sure I checked it all out with a caliper to make sure it fit - although I may have measured it for my brass one and not the Atlas. --Randy
Perfect, now I'm all set to do mine. I have about 6 Atlas ones to do, if I put sound in them all, by the time I do the last one I should be able to do it with my eyes closed.
I'll have to measure the Loksound speaker I have, I'm pretty sure I checked it all out with a caliper to make sure it fit - although I may have measured it for my brass one and not the Atlas.
Randy.....You recommended a Loksound decoder (and speaker/enclosure) early on but my LHS doesn't carry it and being a first attempt at this I opted to go with Soundtraxx which is their prime offering for the help if I ran into problems. As things turned out I was on my own anyway.
Knowing what I know now having the LED diodes on the decoder (Loksound does) sure would have helped simplify things. As it was I opted to mount the diodes atop the decoder to give more flexibility to the wires to the LED's....but the diodes and shrink tubing added thickness on the top of the board where space in the available room above the decoder with the RS3 is very limited.
Being new to all this I didn't/don't know what options exist such as flush mount LED's that was mentioned that could be glued directly to the lens protrusions - or removing the lens piece and filling the holes with something that would transmit light in a similar manner.
And between Mark and you this thread should be a heck of a resource for first time Atlas RS3 decoder installations ...
Over50 Mark....I noticed the static/crackle sound on the first power up with the engine on the track after all the connections were done with the body/shell off. The speaker was just sitting free on the weight. As for my comment about maybe brush arcing.....senior moment......with the engine not in motion the motor ain't turning..... I don't remember if I tried resetting the decoder to default (CV8=8) at the time to see if this would cure the crackle sound. Nothing came up with a Google search. I guess I'll call Soundtraxx support and see what they say..
Mark....I noticed the static/crackle sound on the first power up with the engine on the track after all the connections were done with the body/shell off. The speaker was just sitting free on the weight.
As for my comment about maybe brush arcing.....senior moment......with the engine not in motion the motor ain't turning.....
I don't remember if I tried resetting the decoder to default (CV8=8) at the time to see if this would cure the crackle sound.
Nothing came up with a Google search. I guess I'll call Soundtraxx support and see what they say..
Just to verify .... you are using an 8 ohm speaker ? A damaged voice coil from being over-driven can cause a distinct crackle sound like that.
Randy, you'll actually have a bit of an advantage (I know you're a fellow Loksound user) in that by using a hardwired Select, you'll be able to move the same speaker further forward giving you more room for your light installation.
The Atlas style boards are great for their ease of installations, but they are a space consumer !
Over50 Mark R. As for the hissing sound, I don't know exactly what you are hearing, but most engines have an intermittent air release sitting or running. Does it sound like that may be it, or does it it sound like something that really doesn't belong ? Mark. A better description would be a brief "static" or "crackle sound .... again, it's random, moving or idle. Maybe some motor brush arcing being picked up by the decoder?... The engine runs quiet otherwise with the sound off with good slow speed control.
Mark R. As for the hissing sound, I don't know exactly what you are hearing, but most engines have an intermittent air release sitting or running. Does it sound like that may be it, or does it it sound like something that really doesn't belong ? Mark.
As for the hissing sound, I don't know exactly what you are hearing, but most engines have an intermittent air release sitting or running. Does it sound like that may be it, or does it it sound like something that really doesn't belong ?
A better description would be a brief "static" or "crackle sound .... again, it's random, moving or idle. Maybe some motor brush arcing being picked up by the decoder?... The engine runs quiet otherwise with the sound off with good slow speed control.
In the process of all your cutting and grinding, you didn't get anything in the speaker ? Errant particle in / on the speaker could cause a static sound. Are all your decoder wire connections tight (soldered) ? Positive NOTHING is touching the surface of the speaker ? - even a wire laying lightly against the cone of the speaker will create some odd sounds.
Don't forget to seal your speaker to the enclosure when you're all done, even the four corner holes - makes a night and day difference if it isn't.
Ya it's probably some type of air release "whoosh". Check the CV's, it may just be too loud and by turning it down it will sound better.
Congratulations ! - I knew you could do it if you just kept at it. You solved a very tight installation and you should be very pleased that you got it to work.
Mark R. Over50 The next thing I did was shave the portion of the weight overhanging the gear tower to just over 1mm thickness left. I mounted the enclosure again and I was JUST able to snap the body in place albeit not without extra firm pressure along that end of the housing. I think that's where you haven't gone far enough. You need to go down even further, eliminating that shelf and a bit more - I mentioned this in the middle of page two. This is a newer set of weights that screw on, but the approach is identical .... When you are done, all that overhangs the gear tower is the speaker enclosure itself, and it should just clear the top of the gear tower. You're almost there - don't give up just yet. You haven't picked the easiest engine for your first install, but once you have this one under your belt, the rest will be much easier. Trust me, you're not alone in the learning curve - I've spent many fitful nights trying to figure out how to shoe-horn sound in something. I've even accomplished headlights / tail-lights / DCC sound decoder / speaker AND a stay-alive capacitor in a hi-rail truck ! Mark.
Over50 The next thing I did was shave the portion of the weight overhanging the gear tower to just over 1mm thickness left. I mounted the enclosure again and I was JUST able to snap the body in place albeit not without extra firm pressure along that end of the housing.
The next thing I did was shave the portion of the weight overhanging the gear tower to just over 1mm thickness left. I mounted the enclosure again and I was JUST able to snap the body in place albeit not without extra firm pressure along that end of the housing.
I think that's where you haven't gone far enough. You need to go down even further, eliminating that shelf and a bit more - I mentioned this in the middle of page two. This is a newer set of weights that screw on, but the approach is identical ....
When you are done, all that overhangs the gear tower is the speaker enclosure itself, and it should just clear the top of the gear tower. You're almost there - don't give up just yet. You haven't picked the easiest engine for your first install, but once you have this one under your belt, the rest will be much easier.
Trust me, you're not alone in the learning curve - I've spent many fitful nights trying to figure out how to shoe-horn sound in something. I've even accomplished headlights / tail-lights / DCC sound decoder / speaker AND a stay-alive capacitor in a hi-rail truck !
Success!!!!! ..... I hope. I trimmed the (2) plastic molded protrusions at both ends of the body where the weights slide up into it, cut off the remaining thin section of the weight overhanging the gear tower, beveled the bottom "legs" of what was left of the weight to tilt the enclosure downward toward the coupler end, then filed the bottom of the end of the enclosure over the gear tower to a slant opposite the tilt in the mount and gained just enough wiggle room at the top of the body where I had the LED mounted while providing just enough room so the end of the enclosure wasn't binding up the gearing - and the body snapped in place.
I fired it up with the sound off and no more gear noise ..... what a relief. While the "free movement" of the truck assembly under the speaker is very limited facing the coupler end of the engine at least I can run it now without binding the gearing.
My fabricated Rube Goldberg light pipe with LED arrangement worked but it isn't bright like the other end is. But at least there's enough to see.
Given what I ended up having to do to cram everything in the comments of not much room to work with inside a RS3 shell (words to the effect) were understatements. In spades.
The only remaining problem now is the random hiss/static whether the engine is sitting idling or in motion. Makes no difference. Just short "ssssssss's periodically. Again, I heard this on the first power up of the decoder. I'm going to do a Google search to see if something along the same line pops up. But I can live with it considering what I've gone through to get the #*$@*$*#8 decoder and everything else in and working........
And with this - THANK YOU, THANK YOU (and Randy) for the hand holding through all this. Suffice to say it's going to be a while - a long while - before I attempt another one....especially since all my "machining" was done with a hack saw, coarse file (the filter bleeped the common name.....), mill file and a bench vise....
The only experience I have with the MRC sound decoder was one I put into an Atlas ALCO switcher. Because of the small speaker, the sound quality isn't all that great. The big improvement was that the decoder package included a headlight for the cab. I would much rather use Soundtraxx decoders for larger units. You have to provide your own speaker. I believe you could mount a 3/4" round speaker in the cab without having to reduce the weight.
Mark R. Really wouldn't make any difference, front or rear with the Atlas RS3 - the cavity is identical inside for either end - there are no cab protrusions to be concerned with. Regardless, I still can't help thinking something is amiss here. Yes, it is a tight fit, but he is still out by more than a little. (?) The size of the flywheel and motor / cradle have nothing to do with it as they aren't even near the speaker. @ OP - Look at this picture below - does your speaker enclosure align vertically with the decoder board the same as this ? .... Mark.
Really wouldn't make any difference, front or rear with the Atlas RS3 - the cavity is identical inside for either end - there are no cab protrusions to be concerned with.
Regardless, I still can't help thinking something is amiss here. Yes, it is a tight fit, but he is still out by more than a little. (?) The size of the flywheel and motor / cradle have nothing to do with it as they aren't even near the speaker.
@ OP - Look at this picture below - does your speaker enclosure align vertically with the decoder board the same as this ? ....
First, just to confirm for you and Randy I am trying to fit the enclosure to the radiator end of the hood.
To answer your question, yes, my enclosure appears to be at the same level relative to the board. However from this angle it looks like you totally removed the white metal overhanging the gear tower - plus barring distortion in the photo it looks like the weight has a slight slope toward the coupler end so the enclosure rests tilted downward at the coupler end??
I spent 3 hours this afternoon (after I got back from the hobby shop) trying everything I could think of to gain the room needed. The first thing I tried was making a 3/8ths right angle "L" shaped stub from the light pipe leftovers with the 3mm LED attached to one end that was glued it to the top of the body and the downward facing portion of the light pipe just covering the lenses (I flush cut them). Even with the 3mm LED flush against the underside of the body above the enclosure I was still not able to snap the body in place.
I thought I was finally good to go....but when I test ran the engine I could hear the wheel drive gears grinding. With the bottom of the engine facing me and looking down through the openings either side of the wheels I could see the enclosure was forcing the weight overhang down (broke the glue holding it to the frame) on the gear housing such the wheel assembly was being pushed in a slight downward angle.
It's now back on my work bench. The only thing left to do is totally remove the 1mm weight overhang above the gear tower that the enclosure is sitting on, in other words, cut it off such that only the bottom of the enclosure is above the gear tower. And speaking of the enclosure, I've beveled the long sides WITH the speaker in place to take some off of it and (repeating) sanded/ground off the bottom of the enclosure to gain what little I could.
Another difference I can see in your photo is there are no formed angle guides in the plastic motor housing like I have (or if they're there I can't tell) to guide the body onto the frame in the right configuration (i.e., prevent putting the body on the wrong way).
My next step is get on the phone with Tony's to find out if their mini oval 14mm x 24mm speaker fits flush with the 1/4" overall height enclosure for it. None of the 14mm x 25mm smaller speakers I looked at when I was at the hobby shop today snapped totally inside the enclosure leaving the top to bottom measurement 10mm....same as what I have now with the speaker totally inside the enclosure.
All said, if Tony's tells me their TDS mini oval speaker does NOT flush mount to the enclosure then my options are run silent with DCC control or try mounting the smaller speaker to the cab roof. Or not.
Frankly I'm about wore out messing with this. I've got roughly $140 invested in this first time retro fit attempt but at this point I'm ready to throw in the towel..
And just to mention again, the random hissing sound I got from the first power up with the engine sitting idle or in motion indicates the new decoder I got may be faulty as well....
Are we getting mixed up over which end is which? The long hood end - the one with the radiator fan opening - to me is the front since most roads ran them long hood forward. Some didn't. There's more space for the speaker under the long hood. I assume that's where everyone is trying to put the speaker, regardless if you call that the front or the back of the loco.
There should have been some plastic posts there which the original light bar clipped to. For my non-sound ones I just left them, in fact I only cut the light bar back to just inboard of those posts so the light bar is still held in place the same way. For a sound install, they definitely have to be removed and the light bars cut back much shorter, or else removed entirely and the lenses repalced. I'm not big on turning LEDs - it defintiely can be done, just do not disturb the fragile wire whisker inside that runs fromt he one lead to the top of the actual junction inside - hold a clear LED up to the light and you can see it in there. In fact I had an idea, which I might try. If the light bars are cut almost completely off, leaving just the lenses, some Microscale Crystal-Clear would hold the little remnet in place to act as a lense, and some surface mount LEDs attached behind it - Richmond Controls and others have the LEDs with wires already attached. Or since the lens holes re so small - Crystal Clear can actually form lenses and small windows by itself. Doesn;t seem that all that should be necessary though.
You keep saying you are measuring the interior dimension from the bottom edge of the hood to top center. The shell sits ON the walkway assembly - are you taking into consideration the thickness of the walkway ? That raises the shell up that much more.
I've searched my files, but I can't find te reference right now - but somebody does make a thinner speaker enclosure for that speaker. I'm thinking it was Litchfield Station, but I don't know if they are still around or not - website doesn't work.
Another method I would suggest would be to scrap the enclosure and mount the speaker itself with the magnet against the top of the shell - wires can be routed on either side of the magnet. You need to seal the sides and ends of the speaker to the shell so the back of the speaker is air tight to the shell's interior.