Hey Will.
You're right, model railroading should not be frustrating. I think that's why the older railroads take so much pride in their layouts... they remember all the struggles it took to get things just right. Kind of like how parents are proud of their grown kids.
I also live in a townhouse, and space is limited. (not to mention my wife and toddlers are not MR enthusiasts). To conserve on space, I decided to go to n-scale and to break up the layout into modular segments, connected together underneath with a daisy-chain bus which supplies feeder wires to each section of track on that module. This way I don't have to solder the modules together, but each segment has a good connection to the command station.
Make sure you clean the track segments periodically too!
It's fine to take a break with the hobby in my opinion. Spend time with family while you're away. They'll be more forgiving when you come back. And you'll know you are a real railroader when you come back!
I'd like to see what you decide to do!
- Tim
www.DCCcontrolsystems.com
My apologies if I missed it in the previous posts, but I didn't see a mention of what scale or code you are working with. I'll assume HO, and would like to recommend Micro Engineering (MEC) brand joiners. They will likely require some forming, as well as filing the nose of the rail ends, but nothing else I've used fit as snug as the MEC code 83 joiners, when used with MEC (little or no forming or filing needed), Atlas, or Walthers/Shinohara track and turnouts. I know, more work and another level of complication, you say. But as others have already written, the more bulletproof your trackwork and electrical connections, the better your performance and enjoyment will be. Also, as previously written, consider some form of track support to enhance ease of handling and reduce wear and tear on your trackwork. The more you learn, the more fun this hobby becomes.
Wilton.
Even with your rails soldered together, I think you would be far ahead if you could attach the sections of track to a piece of wood. Even if you used something as lightweight as luan cut just a little wider than the track, it would save a lot of wear and tear on the track. It would not take up much more room to store and give strength to the track sections. The straight sections would be easy enough to make, curved sections a little more patience, but better track would be worth it.
Even with this strengthening, I think you will find the need to replace joiners frequently, but it will pay off with better performance.
Good luck,
Richard
Boy does this sound like a joiner problem. On our club modular layout we use 4" track sections to bridge the module gaps and track joiners to make the connections. On every setup we physically test the joiners out on the 4" sections and if they are not "snug" we replace them. I would say we replace 1/4 joiners on every setup. If we don't those 4" sections become "dead spots" for a lot (not all) of our locos.
I started wiring today and what I am doing is running 2 pieces of 18 gauge wire under each 3 track section of snap track. The wires will connect with the next piece to the side of each section connecting point. I have 33 sections each comprised of 3 sections of track. Each of the 33 sections will have 2 soldering points from the main or bus wire. I will solder 18 gauge feeder wire to the rails and connect to main wire. Now I just have to do the soldering.
Thanks to all who have responded.
Will
Hi: My two cents. when you are plugging the wires together, be sure you do not cross the wires. Use two different colors of wire and keep them aligned on the same side rail.
Sam
Will,
That sounds like a good plan.
Any male/female electrical connectors will work. You can buy packages of them at the big box stores.
As far as a "bad piece of track" goes, unless the track section has been damaged, there is no such thing as a bad piece of track. If the rails are secured in gauge to the ties, then the rails are set to conduct electrical current from one end to another. Rail joiners carry the current from one section to another section. So, the key is to keep the rails clean, and the electrical current flowing, which means solid connections from the bus wires, through the feeder wires, to the rails.
Rich
Alton Junction
Will:
Sounds like you are on the right track. Pardon the pun - I couldn't resist. Establishing solid connections will go a long way towards solving your problems. As for how to properly connect the track sections I will leave that to others with more electrical knowledge.
The suggestion about making sure your track is clean is excellent. Several times I have experienced trouble on my test track because it wasn't kept clean (I am a slow learner).
I am glad that you are overcoming your frustrations. There is a solution to almost every problem. It sometimes takes a while to find it, but this hobby is too much fun to give up just because of some initial hiccups.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Thanks everyone for all the great advice. I have been thinking about this pretty hard and I think I have come up with a solution. Hopefully I can explain correctly. I store my track in sections usually four or five pieces. I plan on soldering these sections together to increase connectivity. Secondly, I am going to run main bus wires under each piece of track and have feeder wires soldered to the track on every 4 or 5 section of track.
Now, what I need to find out is what I can use for wire quick connects that I can plug in and unplug when setting up or tearing down. I was thinking maybe something like XSporpion male and female quick disconnect connectors. This would greatly reduce the amount of potential weak joints and provide smooth power over my whole layout. What do you all think about this plan.
Also, how can you tell if you have a bad piece of track.
Thanks
There is a huge difference between DC and DCC. Dc is controled by the amount of volts being applied to the rails. If the train slows down on the far side of the loop, you just turn the throttle up and it continues.
With DCC, the full voltage is on the track all of the time. The train speed is controlled by the decoder. It take in the track voltage and sends the required volts to make the engine go at the speed you set. Trouble is, there is a point that the decoder will no longer be able to read the signal. When volts drops too low because of excess voltage drop, the throttle can't be turned up as the rails are already getting full volts. Instead the engine stops because the decoder can'tt see the signal to keep going.
In both the DC or DCC situation voltage drop is the same. the results of that drop are different. Fix the drop and you won't have to turn the throttle up on Dc and the trains will keep rolling on DCC.
Martin Myers
I agree that it is a rail joiner problem. One solution is to provide more power feeds to the track. I've also seen people solder short wires to both rails at each end of the sectional track and twist the ends together once the track is assembled into a layout. it doesn't look too good but should fix the slow running provided you have clean track and wheels.
Don't give up, this is a great hobby!
cheers
Alan
Alan Jones in Sunny Queensland (Oz)
DCC is going to be fussier about good connections and clean track than DC.
I think the idea of getting new rail joiners is a good one. You can also solder together a few sections of track, perhaps a full half-circle, to reduce the number of connections you're dealing with.
I would suggest that you work on improving the connections rather than going back to DC. If nothing else, buy some rail joiners with feeders already connected, and add feeders. Powering the track is definitely your problem, and it's one every one of us has dealt with in the past, believe me. And, we'll deal with it in the future.
Oh, and welcome aboard!
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Quite few modelers have found out what you are experiencing. DCC decoders are very sensitive to any power interruptions. There are different reasons interruptions can occur. The decoder has a microprocessor that resets with any power interruptions and goes through a reset operation.
With DC, many times, you will not see any power interruptions. The loco is usually able to drift over the bad spot.
Some DCC experts will tell you that switching form DC to DCC is easy, under certain conditions, it is.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
You are frustrated over the wrong thing.
It's not DCC that's to blame, it's the track.
I, too, vote for loose and/or corroded track joiners. If you must set up and take down frequently, you should replace the joiners from time to time. They are not expensive.
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Everything must be soldered to something that has power. If your track is not soldered to the next piece you need a feeder. You cannot do this if you have to take it down piece by piece every time you put it away.
If you were to make modules, say a 2' x 6' piece of foam framed by 1" x 4"s, you could install the track permanently on it and have connections soldered and have feeders. This could be slid under the bed or hung on the wall of the garage when not in use. This table is 18' x 6' and was easily carried by my neighbour and me around the house and into the train room. so a small 2' x 6' is easily a one man job.
"> At one time I had a 5' x 10' piece of plywood that sat on the dinning room table for the layout. It was a simple task of lifting it off and sliding it behind the sideboard on end if the table was needed. Or we would take it to the garage sometimes. I had a friend who built a huge modular setup, made up of many 2' x 8' X 2"foam on 1" x 4"s modules. In good weather he would set it up on the patio or driveway or in the garage. He could put as many or as few together as space would permit. The track was spaced so any module could be connected to any other. When not in use he had a rack on the wall of his garage where he would store the modules. If you ever have seen a rack that holds windshields in a glass repair shop it looked like that. In my garage I have this setup to make taking off the canopy of my truck easier. I back in put the 2" x 4"s between the canopy and truck and drive out leaving the canopy hanging in space. The old Honda Civic drives right in underneath it and you don't even notice it is there. "> You could have this in your garage (if you have one) and lay your modules on it between uses. Every bed in the house should be able to fit at least one module under it. Or how about on end behind the couch. Where there is will there is a way. We train guy's have to think outside the box sometimes.
At one time I had a 5' x 10' piece of plywood that sat on the dinning room table for the layout. It was a simple task of lifting it off and sliding it behind the sideboard on end if the table was needed. Or we would take it to the garage sometimes.
I had a friend who built a huge modular setup, made up of many 2' x 8' X 2"foam on 1" x 4"s modules. In good weather he would set it up on the patio or driveway or in the garage. He could put as many or as few together as space would permit. The track was spaced so any module could be connected to any other. When not in use he had a rack on the wall of his garage where he would store the modules. If you ever have seen a rack that holds windshields in a glass repair shop it looked like that.
In my garage I have this setup to make taking off the canopy of my truck easier. I back in put the 2" x 4"s between the canopy and truck and drive out leaving the canopy hanging in space. The old Honda Civic drives right in underneath it and you don't even notice it is there.
"> You could have this in your garage (if you have one) and lay your modules on it between uses. Every bed in the house should be able to fit at least one module under it. Or how about on end behind the couch. Where there is will there is a way. We train guy's have to think outside the box sometimes.
You could have this in your garage (if you have one) and lay your modules on it between uses.
Every bed in the house should be able to fit at least one module under it. Or how about on end behind the couch. Where there is will there is a way. We train guy's have to think outside the box sometimes.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
I am guessing you use sectional track and you only set it up when you have the room? Probably the rail joiners are loose from set up and tear down. I use Kato Unitrack in N scale . It has a very good reputation for making temporary layouts that will set up and tore down frequently. They also make an HO scale version of Unitrack that I would guess to be just as good. Kato unitrack has a molded on roadbed and uses plastic hooks AND rail joiners to hold the track together. I would also add a second terminal strip to the other side of the oval to get a better electrical connection. This should solve you're electrical problem......Mike
I sorta agree...sorta. Yes, DC would be far simpler for you, and it would work without the headaches due to intermittent or weak performance...IF....IF, your electrical continuity throughout and significant voltage drops due to the distance the electrons have to swim around your channel isn't too long are not what is causing the DCC ops to go blaaah on you.
What I am hearing from you is frustration that what you take for a smple former DC setup to be have gone so terribly wrong under DCC is making it hardly worth bothering to hook it all up in the first place.
It could be that you aren't getting good metal contact at the contact points from section-to-section of the rails you are putting together. It could be that the power output from your DCC system's outputs is deficient and the unit is faulty....OR...mis-set for the wrong voltage/gauge. For example, the Digitrax DB150 has a mini-toggle to choose the right voltage for the three most popular gauges. I ran my HO locos for a couple of months on the O gauge setting. No probs, thankfully.
What you need to do is to set it up fully, carefully, and then use a meter all over the system, starting from the ouput terminals. Check near where the connection makes it to the rails, and then at about six other places, including where the loco seems to suffer the stutters.
Are your rails level transversely and longitudinally? I mean across them and down the way every six inches you measure? If your loco wobbles, expect spotty performance in DCC that you probably won't see much of in DC. It's a fact.
Is this is a steamer (forgot to look if you mention this as I typed) and it is tethered to the tender, the plug must be very fully driven firmly to the very back wall of the receptacle. Especially if its a BLI product....grrrr.
Bottom line...it's something about which you are currently ignorant. That may sound harsh, but can you argue with me? There is something fixable once you find out what the cause is. At least there is one good thing in all of this...you'll never forget what you find and how to look for it. I have learned many hard-knock lessons in the hobby, and am only somewhat dismayed that I have another twenty or so to go yet. You're just a bit earlier in the process.
Meter your rails and outputs. Check tethers, check rail heights across from each other and for dips or hills between joints, look for proper connections between rail segments, look for bent wipers or dirty pickups on the loco.
Keep at it. It does get better.
Because it's not a permanent layout, and due to you operating a fairly simple one track in an oval shape design, perhaps switching back to DC might be the way to go until you have the space for a more permanent layout? Constantly taking the track apart and putting it back together perhaps is causing some of your track joints/seams to not be 100% solid (those track joiners can get loose/bent/distorted with repeated removal). I have found in my own personal operations, that DCC can be a bit more picky and a tad less forgiving then DC. If you intend on sticking with DCC, perhaps add another set of feeders to the offending side of the oval? Sorry to hear of your frustrations and I hope things get better.
Happy Modeling...!
Don.
"Ladies and gentlemen, I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that both engines have failed, and we will be stuck here for some time. The good news is that you decided to take the train and not fly."
Once again today I tried to set up my layout equipped with DCC and once again it ran like crap. I understand I maybe asking too much out of my current setup but I am close to calling it quits all together and taking a break from this hobby.
Should trying to run trains frustrate me this bad.
Here is what I am trying to do. I live in a townhouse so I do not have a permanent layout so what I use is snap track and the size is not very big. I have an oval track layout with the curves 22'' radius no problems there and straights about my 5 to 6 feet long. When I first started with DCC everything ran great but the last two times I have had nothing but problems.
The straight where I have the power the engines runs fine but lose steam going down the other side. I know its a circuitry issue but my DC system never had this problem and I am sick and tired of trying to solve problem after problem. Anybody have any advice.