Here's my initial, home review of Ring Engineering's RailPro.
I purchased the RailPro HC-1 control unit and (2) LM-1 receivers with sound. RailPro is currently available for HO only. Installation of the receivers was done in a Genesis F3 A/B set. The exiting loco circuit boards had to be removed for the receivers to fit. I also test fitted the receiver into my Bachmann S4 switcher, which is the smallest loco I have. The LM-1 receiver just snugly slid in after I lightly scraped the little bit of plastic flashing from the side seams on the receiver. LM-1 receiver wiring follows the 9-pin JST DCC standard. The common +wire (blue) output is 12V DC and rated for 200mA total draw. Each of the (4) aux/function outputs are rated at 100mA each. Motor output is rated at 800mA continuous, 2 A at stall. My Genesis A unit lights are 1.5 V incandescent bulbs. I used 867 Ohm ¼ Watt resistor in series with the outputs. I installed a QSI HB.090 extended bass speaker for sound in the A unit. The plastic baffle for it is just slightly too large. A little sanding down of 2 opposing sides and the top surface on the baffle was required. The next size down QSI speaker would fit better if using the plastic baffle. I don’t really care for the sound of the plastic baffle, so I make my own baffles out of thin cardboard stock with a plastic cover. Sound is decent. Much better than with the plastic baffle, IMO.
Downloading software upgrades, loco pictures and sound/light effects from Ring Engineering’s website to the HC-1 controller was smooth and easy, but sometimes is lengthy, depending on what and how many files are being downloaded at once. PC only, no Mac yet. Ring Engineering provides generic loco pictures on their site for use with the RailPro system. The pix are used to give specific ID to each individual LM receiver/loco. It’s a real convenience for identifying locos when using the HC-1 touch screen. Loco names or numbers can be created/changed once the formatted picture is in the HC-1 and copied to the LM-1 receiver. A JPEG of any loco can be emailed to RE to be formatted and made available for downloading. Each LM-1 module comes with one free coded picture conversion.
Use of the hand held HC-1 controller with touch screen is very simple and intuitive. Navigation through the pages is a breeze. One of the features I found most useful was the real time feedback and monitoring of the receiver. Receiver points of interest include signal status, temperature status, input Voltage status, throttle percentage and motor full load current value (determined with Ring Engineering’s proprietary load test feature). Protective fault warning and shutdown features of the RailPro system include over temperature, over load and under Voltage. This all came very helpful when I had to troubleshoot a problem with my Genesis F3 B unit. It was jerking/stopping at creep speeds, and wasn’t consisting well with the A unit. It would appear to run fine at higher speeds. I started closely monitoring the HC-1 loco info pages while the loco creeped along, intermittently jerking and stopping. Got a lot of “track under Voltage” faults/warnings on the HC-1 that would clear quickly. Track V on loco info page jumping around a little. The most interesting part is that the HC-1 would lose the signal, first intermittently then permanently. I would have to cycle power to the LM-1 receiver for the signal to come back. I thought “RF noise” – truck pickup and/or motor. Found 2 loose truck wires, one on each truck, wiggling under those stupid wire slip on press connectors. Soldered all truck connects. F3 A/B running smooth as a baby’s butt now.
RailPro’s sound files and light effects are impressive. New files and FX are constantly being developed by Ring Engineering, and provided on their site for easy downloading. The light FX seem to be designed for LEDs, cause the very cool Mars, Attack, Beacon and Strobe FX don’t effect as well with the incandescent lights. Now, I keep the voltage pretty low (high resistance) on my incandescents, so that could be a factor. When I informed RE of this and about my P2K E unit dual filament Mars light, they said that I could send a video. They claim that their software can create just about any light FX.
MU match-up is a piece of cake. First, each loco’s “motor full load current” is determined and stored using RailPro’s simple test procedure. Up to (12) locos can be run simultaneously. Any combination of locos can be quickly/easily consisted up to (12) locos total, i.e. (6) consists of (2) locos each, (3) consists of (4) locos each, and so on. Although start speed, top speed, acceleration and deceleration curves and adjustments are provided for each loco/receiver, RailPro can automatically set up the load sharing in the consists once the “motor full load current” is determined for each loco. A little acceleration and deceleration adjustments to the lead loco makes for a smooth MU ops. Linking and unlinking locos is a snap with a few touches on the screen.
The range of RailPro is given as 100 ft. I still had good signal when I took the HC-1 out in my front yard (about 100 ft., two walls). The acid test will be when I run at the San Diego Model Railroad Museum with all the noise and about every wireless device imaginable around there. Then I will be able to get a practical range of operation.
Customer service is outstanding. My emailed preorder questions were all answered within 24 hours. Two hours after I placed the order on their web site, Tim Ring called me on the phone and told me that I could get it cheaper from a dealer on the East coast. He then canceled my order. I ended up saving about $150 cause of that. We ended up talking for 45 mins or more. They have been developing this for (10) years. What’s next? More sound files, a smaller cheaper non-sound receiver, the LM-2, and large scale application of RailPro.
RailPro has been out for two years now, and it looks like a very bright future for Ring Engineering. These people got something here, and they seem very excited about the response that they are getting with little advertising. IMO, RailPro is a movement toward prototypical operations of model trains.
DC
http://uphonation.com
DC,
First off: Thanks for taking the time to write your initial review on the RailPro system. Reviews like this are always helpful and informative.
You mentioned that you saved $150 on your purchase. How much did the HC-1 control unit and two (2) LM-1 sound receivers cost you?
And, for those who are familiar with the technology, what advantages would the RailPro system have over DCC? Thanks!
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstage DC, First off: Thanks for taking the time to write your initial review on the RailPro system. Reviews like this are always helpful and informative. You mentioned that you saved $150 on your purchase. How much did the HC-1 control unit and two (2) LM-1 sound receivers cost you? And, for those who are familiar with the technology, what advantages would the RailPro system have over DCC? Thanks! Tom
You are welcome, Tom.
I got the system from http://www.traintekllc.com
Man, I don't really want to start a fight over DCC. For those that are already deeply invested in it, I think it's fine. It was definately an improvement in control when it first came out. But for me, I was turned off by all the convoluted programming and high component count of DCC from the get go. I have also been witness to a lot of swearing and frustration at the SDMRR museum over DCC. Now, the SD&AE layout (where I run) also has analog DC integrated into the layout, so that could be a factor, but the cab plugs and wires, connecting and disconnecting all the time seemed problematic. They can't use wireless cabs, cause it interfered with the G and O boy's wireless. NCE said they would look into it. That was 3 years ago. The SDMRR association as spent a lot of time and money trying to work out DCC problems. Upgrades seem constant, but the system gets a lot use there, too. I have been running a marginal, custom 75mHz HO Train Engineer system that I designed and built for my P2K E units for about 5 years now. Been totally reliable, but poor reception/transmission. Can always stop/start, but lose speed control. When the DCC crashes and is reset, I'm up and running while everyone else is programming. I like the more prototypical operations of RC.
dcfixer Man, I don't really want to start a fight over DCC.
Man, I don't really want to start a fight over DCC.
And that was NOT my intention for posing the question in the first place. I see from the RailPro webpage that they do have comparison chart for those interested in learning more.
I knew it wasn't your intention, but there are some out there.... Thanks for posting that, Tom.
dcfixer ...but there are some out there....
...but there are some out there....
Yes, there are...
I should also mention that I ran it on both 12V DC and the NCE DCC SB5 booster. No difference in ops. I'm going to be using the SB5 for rail power on my new home layout. I want to stay a little closer to SDMRR, and I may get a friend or 2 that can bring their cabs over and run with me.
I recently purchased a RailPro controller and an LM-1 locomotive module from Yankee Dabbler to test it out. The locomotive I selected is a Model Power re-released Mantua 4-6-2 Pacific with a long tender, because I wanted to make sure the LM-1 and speaker would fit..
The tender floor is a solid metal casting with no provision for sound, but it does have a 9-pin JST socket in it. I was able to put a QSI deep bass speaker with enclosure in the floor of the tender after I drilled a large hole in the center of the tender floor. The LM-1 fits loosely on top of the speaker enclosure.
I run the loco on our club's DCC powered layout which is in a 20 x 40 foot room. It has plenty of volume for a club setting, even with the volume set at less than 50%..
Surprisingly, the RailPro receiver doesn't seem to be as sensitive to power glitches caused by dirty track or dirty wheels as the DCC locomotives do.
I have been trying to find a sound-ready diesel locomotive that the LM-1 will fit into, or one with a LM-1 pre-installed.
The generic photo mentioned that is provided by Ring Engineering is of a Union Pacific diesel locomotive, but they don't say whose model it is.
cacole "I have been trying to find a sound-ready diesel locomotive that the LM-1 will fit into, or one with a LM-1 pre-installed."
"I have been trying to find a sound-ready diesel locomotive that the LM-1 will fit into, or one with a LM-1 pre-installed."
I have never heard of a HO sound-ready loco that doesn't already have a sound decoder. Sounds a little expensive to pull the decoder to put in an LM-1, but I don't see why one couldn't.
Talk to Ring Engineering. I think they do installations, and may know dealers who have locos, pre-installed with an LM-1 and a speaker. Wouldn't hurt.
A sound-ready locomotive is one with provision for a speaker, but is either not DCC equipped or comes with only a motor/light decoder. Athearn Genesis locomotives are an example of ones offered as "sound ready" but not sound equipped.
A recently purchased Athearn Genesis was sound ready but had no decoder installed.
I have contacted Ring Engineering, who suggested contacting Yankee Dabbler from whom I had purchased the RailPro controller and LM-1, but YD never responded to my question.
Atlas Silver series locos are also that way, they still have the speaker tower that the Gold sound units use, but usually have an extra weight mounted there. Remove weight, repalce with a pair of speakers, no mechanical fiddling to make room for the speaker.
I just had a good laugh, it's been a while since I looked at the Ring Engineering site and I noticed the icon they use on the HC-1 page screenshots for the "low speed boost" (what many DCC decoders call kick start) - the turtle used everywhere especially on lawn equipment to indicate slow, with a boot in his rear.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Thanks for the education on "sound Ready", guys. I haven't bought a new loco for many years, and not a DCC user, so I plead ignorance.
Ring Engineering and RC? Well, they have been in business for 8 years. They have had the EOT device for most of that time - selling well, from what I heard. I bought a couple. Very nice. They have quite a large list of authorized dealers, too. I'm not worried about them going belly-up. They are quite excited with the way things are going, and Tim Ring sounds VERY confident about the future of model train control. He's even talking WiFi. I agree...after all, why not? The model airplane/boat/car RC guys have been laughing at us about DCC for years, and having a blast with radio. The RailPro and Ring Engineering potentially have applications in that field, too. Large scale RC is very successful, and Ring Engineering is developing for that. Look at Aristo Craft, G wire, etc. Aristo Craft was even developing their Revolution for HO a few years ago. I was slated to Alpha test at the museum for them. They did drop development, though, about the time RailPro came out. Daahhh! RC, and eventually battery power for HO, just seems like the natural way to go. RC does have WAY less component count than DCC, thus, inherently less problematic by design. Some other testers for Aristo Craft, and couple of dealers I know have told me that there are parallel developments to RailPro going on with RC right now.
If one is really worried about it, wait.
cacole, sorry you are having difficulty with installation issues. I'm a little surprised that no one has offered to do it for you, yet. It is pretty straight forward. QSI has a nice varity of speaker sizes/shapes. I don't have the physical stamina or time anymore to do it, or I would offer to. My layout and pass car modeling is taking all I got for this hobby...and very long. I don't think you would be happy with how long it would take me to turn it around, but I would be more than willing to help you via mail/phone if you like.
Thanks for the offer, but I have had no install issue with the 4-8-2, but with finding out who, if anyone, makes an HO diesel model with the RailPro LM-1 already installed, or who can say which locomotives can be so equipped without needing to have the frame milled.
Here's some email excerpts I received from Tim Ring that might be of interest:
***************************************
The HC-1 control knob and touchscreen are designed to last a lifetime. Push buttons and click pots that are used on typical DCC throttles are much more likely to fail.
The horn can easily be played without looking down to the screen if the horn button is located in the lower left corner because you can feel the screen edge and operate the button without looking down.
Also, with RailPro button setup, you can make any button in any potion easily with the on board software.
As for reversing we admit you need to look at the screen with the current software. It literally only takes half a second to find and press the reverse button. We do believe that in a future software update we will move the reverse button to the upper left corner of the screen. Then you will be able to use the upper left corner to locate the reverse button without looking down. Then you will be able to control speed, direction, and horn with one hand and without looking down.
The reason why we change all files to RailPro format before they are loaded to the HC-1 is because existing formats (bmp, jpg, etc.) are not the best for model train control system like RailPro. Further, when the RailPro system uses all RailPro formatted files, you end up with a stable system that does not have compatibility issues and crashes like PCs often do. We currently do not have software that can easily be used by customers to convert files to RailPro format. However, we do plan to make PC software that will allow customers to use and convert their picture and sound files to RailPro format.
*******************************************
So far, Tim as shown that he really listens to customers. Soooooo important these days.
Another Railpro user here and very satisfied. I've had it for nearly a year now and am thoroughly enjoying it.
Regarding sound installs and 'sound-ready locos', there are a few options that can make things relatively easy. As stated earlier, some Atlas Silver Series locos have the speaker enclosures already installed. Putting sound in them is as simple as measuring the size for the speakers, buying them, and installing. I have to add that out of all the sound installs I've done (which isn't that many) the Atlas sounds the best. The way they designed the shell allows for a very good baffle and can bring a lot of the deeper sounds out.
For hood units (geeps and such) I've found that using Railmaster speakers is pretty straightforward. Their smallest speaker with enclosure has pretty good sound for its size and fits easily, along with th LM-1, in smaller hood units like a GP35. Larger units can fit one of Railmaster's bass reflex speakers, which sound much better due to the larger speaker size and enclosure. On some installs (non-sound ready Atlas) I had to remove some of the weight to allow a reasonable size speaker to fit.
I'm looking forward to when they release PC software to allow us covert our own pics and sounds into Railpro format. Their sound library is good, but releasing that to the community to use would open the door to a huge number of custom sound files. Exciting prospects!
-Kevin
dcfixer Here's some email excerpts I received from Tim Ring that might be of interest: *************************************** {snip} As for reversing we admit you need to look at the screen with the current software. It literally only takes half a second to find and press the reverse button. We do believe that in a future software update we will move the reverse button to the upper left corner of the screen. Then you will be able to use the upper left corner to locate the reverse button without looking down. Then you will be able to control speed, direction, and horn with one hand and without looking down. {snip}
{snip}
Now that would address my biggest usability concern. Once I can use the throttle without having to repeatedly look at it to find the buttons I most commonly use, I'd be willing to try it out.
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
The direction button is located close enough to the upper right hand corner, and there are no other usable objects up there, that I can change direction without looking by locating the corner and pushing down on the screen with the flat top part of my finger - not the tip. It is a little too much of a reach, and I think the upper left corner would be better and faster, though.
Being a gadget freak I think these look really cool and it seems I can run it right on top of my Zephyr (or hell maybe even hooked up to a 300W PS from an old computer.) But I run old timey-wimey stuff and that receiver chip would be hard to fit in my babies.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Spacemouse: Very sweet babies, Man. Maybe the smaller, non-sound LM-2 will be easier to fit somewhere. Could you tether back to the tender? What about the boiler section? Difficult to get access to?
The tender comes with DCC plug. I've been able to get decoders in them. I think I could even set-up a LOK sound decoder with speaker in there. But 2 inches is about all I have in there. And only along the top.
SpaceMouse The tender comes with DCC plug. I've been able to get decoders in them. I think I could even set-up a LOK sound decoder with speaker in there. But 2 inches is about all I have in there. And only along the top.
2 inches is enough, even for the sound module (LM-1). The height clearance needs to be 5/16 in, though. 9 pin JST or 8 pin NMRA? The LM-1 has a DCC 9 pin standard socket, but Digitrax has a 9-pin JST to 8-pin NMRA adapter harness that I have used in my P2Ks. One issue is the common (+blue wire) of the 9 pin JST (pin 7 of the 8 pin NMRA) when using this adapter harness. The LM-1 will not drive the old P2K 100mA headlight. Nothing happened to the receiver, cause it has overload protection, but I got an "output 1 short circuit/overload" fault from the receiver when I first hooked it up and tried the light. I had to cut the blue wire in the harness so that it didn't feed pin 7 of the 8 pin DCC socket of the P2K, install a FW rectifier for the rail power, feed that to the P2K board for the Mars light, and install a transistor circuit for the headlight using the rectified rail power. The Mars light is on all the time, and I will address controlling that with the LM-1 sometime. Right now, I'm OK with it being on all the time (having too much fun with the layout right now).
If your locos have LEDs, no problem - piece of cake. It's just those old large, power hungry Tungstens that may require some mods.
I really like all the protections and warnings that RailPro has. Pretty hard to screw one of those LM receivers up...so far.
I had read about RailPro but I only glanced at it. After looking at some reviews and videos I think I am going to give this system some serious thought. The club I am at uses Digitraxx and I really haven't had exposure to Lenz or NCE. I am basically starting and current motive power is running DC so from what I am reading this system is probably easier to set up and get up and running out of the box. I would need the HC-2, some decoders and a power supply but it appears cost wise I will end up spending about the same amount of money either way. The technology just seems so intuitive that I can spend more time enjoying the trains.
The only thing that is bad about the system is it is proprietary! Train Engineer is what I run now which has the same problem but mine is for DC (no problems though). I have one of their plug and play to DCC plug set ups but have yet to try it as I am still building layout and it can be converted to dead rail which I hope to do.
Since we opened another old thread from over a year ago - perhaps an update from the OP if he's still around, on how he feels about the system now after having lived with it fro more than a year?
No problem, Randy.
I have had so much frustration-free fun, and have been nothing but pleased since I bought into Railpro. I have 8 loco modules installed, and the sytem has been flawless for me. In the five times that I have ran at the SDMRR museum with Railpro, there has been no interference or operational problems, and I can cover the entire layout from anywhere in the layout area. I can still run circles around the DCC guys. Not only due to the mobility I have, but when they are waiting for a total restart to finish (and their re-configuring), I'm up and gone as soon as the DCC basic 15V signal comes back up on the track. I'm getting about 6 hours from a full charge on the battery. So, I usually just recharge the controller, for a little while, during my lunch break at the museum. Then I have no problem getting through a 10-12 hour day there.
I did discover a crack in my screen one day that mysteriously appeared, causing a black spot on the screen. The touch screen still worked, but the spot covered a couple of buttons. I'm not 100% sure if it was my fault and I just wasn't aware, or it was a delayed failure from a manufacture/assembly defect, but I sent it back to Ring. It was returned to me in less than 2 weeks, repaired at no cost to me, except for the shipping to Ring.
The smaller LM2 module is available with or without sound in the same size package. There are additional aux outputs as well. I had no problem installing the LM2 into an old Athearn blue box GP50 and a Bachman S7 switcher - both pretty small locos with little space in them. The small size, load capability and functions contained in such a lightweight radio transceiver still blows my mind.
I have had no problems with Ring's online downloading services. There's new sound and light effects being regularly developed by Ring. Their loco photo/coding procedure just hasn't bothered me at all. Ring has always made my photo available within a couple of days. No big deal.
I've gotten pretty good at operating the controller with one hand. While I was recording video at the museum, there were times when I had Railpro in one hand and camcorder in the other - controlling, moving around and recording at the same time.
I have gathered from communication with Tim Ring that business is good. They still haven't seen the need to spend on advertising much. There seems to be no problem getting new customers from word-of-mouth. Combining that with "made and serviced in the USA", is still all I need to be confident.
Thanks for the update on the RailPro. Glad to hear that the system is still working well for you. One question I haven't seen asked or covered. How does this system work when there are multiple controllers working the same layout at the same time? If one controller is in control of a locomotive(s) can another controller access/steal the locomotive(s) or does the operator in control have to end the session before another operator/controller can access them? I don't plan on a second controller yet for a few years but it would be soon as my three year old isn't going to stay the same age and he likes trains too! Thank you,
Very good review with lots of details. Helps keep down the opinions from those who do not have the system.
Hope you sent this off to Ring.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
You are welcome, Kevin. Sorry, it took so long for me to reply.
Any number of HC's can find and control any product. All the HCs can have a picture of the loco, or other Railpro product on them. However, only one HC can control a locomotive/consist or product at one time. If HC A is controlling a loco or consist of locos and HC B touches the picture of the loco or a loco in consist that HC A is controlling then HC A displays "Control Taken Away" and HC B runs the train (picks it up from current speed direction, number of consisted locos etc).
If you put a password in any product and do not share it with any other user, than only you can control the product.
DC I appreciate the input you have provided. Sounds like a Digitraxx where you steal a locomotive. Have you tried running a train with 'Distributed Power Units' or anyone else tried this as a modern day prototypicl practice? I think a video I watched eluded to this and in theory it sounds like it should work as long as the lead locomotives don't have some kind of issue and the following units don't over compensate and shove the cars off the track between the two locomotives. To do it with DCC would require a matched set of locomotives that are speed matched but yet I think the best operation would require multiple operators following their own locomotive around a layout and really watching to make sure they aren't pushing from the rear too fast or not keeping pace which with DCC I think there would be more issues. As I said earlier I have really only had exposure to DCC at the club I am involved with and I believe the two consists we run on the layout have both locomotives in each consist set up to the same address. The one consist ran really rough and the whole train would lurch as they were not speed matched and it was dependent on which locomotive was getting better traction at a given moment.
I have never tried that myself, Kevin. I have seen it done, once, at the club with DCC and a very long freight train (>100 cars), but the locos were the same manufacturer, same model. I don't think he made it all the way around the layout without some trouble. It seems like quite a challenge for any control system, even with clean track/wheels, and perfectly running locos. If a train like that bridged 2 adjacent power districts, and something or someone brought down one of those districts, I can imagine quite a mess.