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Kato Turnouts

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  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:03 AM

 The only time you should have to put insulated joiners on the diverging side frog rails is when the frog is not insulated. Because if you think about ti for a second, it would be a dead short. One frog rail is the right rail of one path, but it's the left rail of the other path.

 

 The old adage was feed turnouts from the point side, never from the frog side. Because in the early days pretty much none of the turnouts had insualted frog rails.

 On turnouts like Atlas, those two rails are insulated from one another. You can connect feeders anywhere with no short.

  If the power routing does indeed connect both rails past the frog to one side or the other, gaps are absolutely needed, since that means the rails past the frog are not insulated from one another. Not sure how it will burn up the turnout, since as soon as you applied power you'd have a dead short through the rails.

                      --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Christiana, TN
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Posted by CSX Robert on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:44 PM

BrianinBuffalo

I dare say you are incorrect sir.  All Kato switched are not the same.  You may need to investigate that for yourself.  I killed two Kato switches that way.Snail

 
Everything I have read emplies the HO #4's are just like the N #6's, and the HO #6's are just like the N #4's, but  I will say that I do not have any hands on experience with the HO turnouts, so maybe they are different than N scale ones.  I do know, from personal experience, that both the #4 and the #6 N scale turnouts do not need isolating(and it is N scale that the OP is asking about).
 
If you try to power the leg of the turnout through the turnout, I can see how that might damage it - I don't know right off hand if the internal wiring could handle a high amperage load or not, but I would not be surprised if it could not.  However, that only means that you need to jumper power to the legs of the turnout, not isolate it.
  • Member since
    January 2013
  • 39 posts
Posted by SmithSr on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:24 PM

#6 routes power under the frog, not through the frog, and diverging rails are gapped and isolated from the frog.

Unitrack if it works on DC it'll work on DCC.  Visualize what's happening, and tinker around a little, then there will be no more mystery.  For discussion of track, DCC is simply another form of power to the rails, that's it.  So know your hardware(how does brand X route electricity through it's turnout)

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Christiana, TN
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Posted by CSX Robert on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 7:49 PM

I can assure you that I have several N-scale #6 Unitrack turnouts operating on DCC without having any of the rails isolated, and it works with no issues whatsoever.  I have seen people recommend isolating the legs of the tunrouts, but I have never seen any reason given for it other than "they are power routing".  Again, many(probably most) power routing turnouts would cause a short and do need to be isolated, but Kato's do not work the same way and they do not cause the same short that other power routing tunrouts cause.

  • Member since
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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 6:08 PM

 I started with a Zephyr (the original one) and never looked back. One cable handles any extra throttles, signalling and detection, extra booster whould you ever need more power, etc. Probably won;t need any extra power with N scale, not for a while, since the Xtra has a 3 amp output (my original Zephyr is 2.5 amps and I ran 8 HO locos at the same time, half with sound - that would be nearly 16 N scale locos - and the Xtra has more power). It can run up to 20 locos at the same time, just add throttles to control them.

                 --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    December 2012
  • From: Mesa, AZ
  • 1,530 posts
Posted by RideOnRoad on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:24 PM

Let me see if I can net this all out, to see if I understand.

1.  If I have a Kato layout using power routing turnouts and a single feeder, and it is currently handling DC without a problem, I can simply unhook the DC power supply, attach the DCC supply and everything will work exactly as it did before.  (Assuming, of course, a DCC-enabled engine.)

2.  Given #1, there will still be power routing, ie. the non-switched track will still be dead.  I will not be able to run an engine on that track.  (I realize this is fairly obvious, but I am a simple person.)

3.  If I ensure there are correctly configured feeders for every section of track that can be isolated by a turnout, life is good and I can run an engine anywhere, anytime, regardless of the turnout direction.

4.  It may be a good practice to isolate the branches of the turnout, but there is some disagreement about this point.

5.  If I do #4, there shouldn't be an issue, other than the short section of the non-routed turnout will not have power, but a running engine should never be on this little segment anyway.

How'd I do?

Richard

  • Member since
    July 2008
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Posted by mfm37 on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:35 PM

Your original post mentioned that the layout is running fine on DC. If that's the case then it will run fine onh DCC. Personally, I would add feeders to every spur but that's my preference. I don't like depending on the switch points to power my track. If you just hook up DCC the layout will still work as before. Those power routing switches will still route DCC.

I did the electricfal work on M.B.Klein's N scale store display  layout. It's all Unitrack. There are 4 sets of feeders on the main loop. An additional pair are on each siding. I left the switches set to power routing because it didn't matter. It is set up to run with either Digitrax DCC or an MRC DC supply. using simple plug.

Martin Myers

  • Member since
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  • From: Christiana, TN
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Posted by CSX Robert on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:21 PM

Why would you isolate the legs of the turnout?  I can think of a few reasons - if you want to be able to shut off power to one leg or the other, if you want to isolate them for block detection,  or if they form a reversing section.  If none of these apply, then there is no reason to isolate them. 

There is one other common reason for isolating the legs of power routing turnouts.  Many power routing turnouts will cause a short on the leg that the turnout is not aligned for if power is fed to track on that leg.  They do this because the frog and inside rails are all common with each other and the turnout switches the frog according to the turnouts alignment.  Kato turnouts do not operate that way.  The frog and inside rails are isolated from each other, and if the turnout is power routing it simply cuts the power to the inside rail that the turnout is not aligned for.  Therefore it does not create a short and does not need to be isolated.

  • Member since
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  • From: Mesa, AZ
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Posted by RideOnRoad on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 2:03 PM

CSX Robert

. . .It is NOT neccessary to isolate the turnout. 

Robert:  If you could enlighten the newbie (me), that would be great.

Richard

  • Member since
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  • From: Christiana, TN
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Posted by CSX Robert on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 1:53 PM

BrianinBuffalo

Hi Richard;

The gaps in the rail on the switch is large enough that you do not need to worry about that.  Just remember to isolate ALL 4 ends where the turnout branches to two lines.

The grayed out sections needs the isolated track joiners.

Kato track and Kato trains are amazing products.

It is NOT neccessary to isolate the turnout. 

  • Member since
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  • From: Mesa, AZ
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Posted by RideOnRoad on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:48 AM

I was looking at the Digitrax Zephyr Xtra, but haven't made up my mind yet.  I am also looking at the TCS engine decoders.  What made you choose the PowerCab?  It seems like when I was doing my research, the Zephyr had a bit more power out of the box than the PowerCab.

Richard

  • Member since
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  • From: Mesa, AZ
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Posted by RideOnRoad on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 10:24 AM

Brain:  Got it.  I am just getting started and all I have is Kato track and engines, so I know no different.  All I know is that I put the track together, put on the trains, and everything works.  I did upgrade my DC power supply to an MRC200.  The light kits in the passenger cars, plus a couple of engines, was a little more than the Kato power supply could handle.  I am still using the Kato supply to power my switches and my isolated switching yard.  When I make the move to DCC, I plan to use the Kato DC convertors for my switches.

Richard

  • Member since
    December 2012
  • From: Mesa, AZ
  • 1,530 posts
Posted by RideOnRoad on Wednesday, March 13, 2013 9:15 AM

Brain:  Once again, thanks!  I knew about the insulated Unijoiners, but not the feeder Unijoiners.  I have (at least) one more question for you.  Did you isolate the turnouts, and if so, where?

Richard

  • Member since
    December 2012
  • From: Mesa, AZ
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Posted by RideOnRoad on Tuesday, March 12, 2013 6:20 PM

Brian:  Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for. (And yes, it is N scale.)  All I have at the moment are #6 turnouts and I didn't remember seeing a means to change the power routing.  I was also looking to add crossovers and it looks like they are in the same boat as the #6 turnouts.  I read the description of what is required to DCC-enable the #6 turn-outs and I am reticent to open them up.  A) My eyesight isn't what it used to be, and B) I have very limited mechanical prowess.  I will either solder some jumpers to the rails, not a very elegant solution, or sprinkle feeders all over the place.

Richard

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Christiana, TN
  • 2,134 posts
Posted by CSX Robert on Tuesday, March 12, 2013 1:30 PM

The jumpers are accessed on the bottom of the turnout, no need to open one up.

  • Member since
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  • From: Mesa, AZ
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Posted by RideOnRoad on Tuesday, March 12, 2013 1:25 PM

Randy:  Thanks for the information.  I will need to open up one of my turnouts and see if I have the jumper.  My plan was to have multiple feeders, but there are some areas where the feeders would be a bit of overkill, such as on each and every spur.  I suppose if I don't have the jumpers, I could solder some jumpers between the rails.  As I understand it, the outer rails are always hot, and the turnout switches power on the inner rails.

Richard

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, March 12, 2013 12:38 PM

 Some models of Unitrack turnouts have a jumper of sorts on the bottom to toggle them to be non power routing. Otherwise, you need to provide additional feeders to the rails - a good idea regardless. Unless you have a very simple and trivial track plan, you'll want multiple feeders spaced out around the layout to ensure power delivery at all points of the layout and no slowdowns of the trains.

                 --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    December 2012
  • From: Mesa, AZ
  • 1,530 posts
Kato Turnouts
Posted by RideOnRoad on Tuesday, March 12, 2013 9:54 AM

As I prepare for my move to DCC I have a couple of questions about Kato turnouts.  I am using Kato Unitrack for my layout, and for a beginner it has been perfect.  I have not had a single track problem to date.  Right now the turnouts are working great for DC, they route power only to the active line, the inactive line is dead.  It seems to me that with DCC, I would want all rails to have power all the time.  Is this correct?  If so, what is the best way to bypass the power switching of the Kato turnouts?

Tags: kato

Richard

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