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Wire....Stranded vs Solid

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Posted by Ron High on Friday, March 8, 2013 8:26 AM

Actually telephone wire has long been twisted to prevent cross talk even cat 3 had a twist for that purpose. This twist prevented cross talk  long before any data signals were commonly being transmitted over telephone cables. This is also done in the outside plant cable  for this reason as well as pair identification. In fact open wire with all the crossarms pegs and insulators were set up between some crossing back and forth between pegs on crossarms pole to pole to help with crosstalk prevention. Of course open wire was very uncommon in Massachusetts by the time I started with Ma Bell in 1966.

Ron High

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Posted by dbduck on Thursday, March 7, 2013 9:31 PM

Thanks to everyone for their insight & input

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Posted by modelmaker51 on Thursday, March 7, 2013 6:23 PM

I have 2 30'  runs and one 43' run. Not twisted. No problems.

Jay 

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Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums 

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Thursday, March 7, 2013 5:31 PM

Twisted Pear:

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, March 7, 2013 4:29 PM

 Perhaps, but 'twisted' is the proper term - like 'twisted pair' wire.

              --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by selector on Thursday, March 7, 2013 3:45 PM

Maybe 'wrapping the wires around each other' would be a better term to use rather than 'twisted', at least for the purposes of this discussion.  In some DCC sources they say that the digital signal can be compromised over long runs of bus or feeder wires unless the two wires are wrapped around each other periodically.  However, our twin rails lying on the layout's surface just inches away are not wrapped around each other, and in most cases they run longer than the bus does on any one layout.  They, too, run voltages, current, and the digital packets.  Why don't we get problems at the rails if the wires below them have to wrapped?

I have read that runs of bus longer than about 40' should be wrapped.  If you don't plan on such lengths, the discussion is moot...apparently.

Crandell

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Thursday, March 7, 2013 2:13 PM

I twist my bus wires for mechanical reasons, not electrical.

I use 3 separate wires for the bus., Rail A, Rail B, and Booster Ground.  I twist them to keep them together.

Dave

Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow

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Posted by Train Modeler on Thursday, March 7, 2013 2:10 PM

I like stranded wire since it bends easily and solders more easily to the track.  I don't have trouble with the stranded wire when I poke it through holes since I don't strip it until I'm ready to solder or connect depending on which end I'm poking through. 

Twisting the wires is not good practice, at least how I've been taught for this application.   It can also make the bus/feeder connections more difficult by having to unwind some of the twist. 

Richard

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, March 7, 2013 1:55 PM

dbduck

Is twisting the wires recommended?

No, on his Wiring for DCC web site,  Allan Gartner frowns upon the use of twisted wires.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by dbduck on Thursday, March 7, 2013 1:54 PM

LION

by twisted pair I mean taking the 2 individual conductors (either solid or stranded) & twisting them  to resemble a barber pole or candy cane

.DCC,  as with other communication systems (CAT-5  etc),, as I understand it, can be subject to  issues with inductance & interference because there is data being transmitted down the wires

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Thursday, March 7, 2013 1:48 PM

What do you mean by twisted.

There is SOLID wire, and there is STRANDED WIRE.

Twisted wire are twisted pairs of wire such as cat-5, cat-e or cat-6 cables.

Cat-3 cables are sort of twisted pairs but only for identification of pairs, where as in cat 5 and esp cat 6 the twisting is required for the circuit  to work correctly.

LIONS know little of DCC, but the CONTROL circuit might be twisted pair, but the bus wires do not need this.

ROAR

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Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by Soo Line fan on Thursday, March 7, 2013 1:22 PM

Either will work. If you have a area that needs to move, such as a control panel that hinges or a drop leaf, then stranded is better.

Twisted pairs are used on automotive CAN applications due to the proximity to other circuits. The pair could be bundled into a harness with dozens of other wires.

For a model railroad, I do not think there are enough other circuits to cause a problem.

What does the manufacturer recommend?

Jim

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Posted by dbduck on Thursday, March 7, 2013 1:19 PM

I am just starting to build my layout & I am currently using 14 gauge stranded as my main buses and 20 gauge as my "drops" 

 My main bus wires are not twisted. I only asked because I have heard & read various opinions regarding the need to twist the pair to avoid inductance

I  will be using Digitrax 5 amp Super Chief

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, March 7, 2013 1:09 PM

 Either one is a near-religious type of question LOL

I prefer stranded for the heavy bus wire as it is easier to pull around under the benchwork. I prefer solid for the feeders since it's easier to poke down throught he layout and easier to solder to the side of the rail or the rail joiners.

I also don;t deliberately twise my bus wires, though they usually end up slightly twiseted anyway. Never had a signal or wierd data loss problem. I also don;t need or use any sort of 'snubber' circuit on the end of the bus wires - neither does the club layout which is many times bigger than my home layout, but we both use Digitrax.

                          --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Wire....Stranded vs Solid
Posted by dbduck on Thursday, March 7, 2013 1:01 PM

Two very simple questions regarding bus feeders for DCC

1)  is one type of wire (stranded/solid) recommended over the other ?

2) is twisting the wires recommended?

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