Since moving to a retirement condo I've been building a new layout over the past couple of years and I've now reached the point of starting the wiring for a first-time Digitrax DCC layout in a 15' x 16' room.
Wow.....(as in pain). I've have been checking prices of 100 ft. rolls of stranded #14 wire and it's depressing. The last time I was into layout wiring was over 25 years ago during my working-for-a-living years when a 500 ft. roll of #14 stranded machine tool wire could be had for less than $50.
So far the big box stores average cost is running in the mind numbing ~$35 range per $100 ft. roll which would bring the cost of (4) different color spools (2 for DCC buss and 2 for snap switch capacitive discharge control buss) to over $140 before sales tax (Michigan). And online price Google searches are no better that I've found so far - and this was before shipping costs.
Would appreciate any suggested sources....for wire that is....I already have blood pressure medicine...
I am seeing 100 foot rolls of 14 gauge stranded at Home Depot for $21.60 per roll.
Rich
Alton Junction
I went to an electrical supply house to buy my #14 wire as it was going to be a lot cheaper than the big box store price. The guy quoted me what I thought was a pretty good price at the time and so I asked for six hundred feet of the stuff. Three hundred feet of red and three hundred feet of black. I mentioned it was for a model railroad and as soon as he heard that he knocked another big chunk off. He then paused and asked if I could use #12 instead of #14 as he had a bunch of roll ends to get rid of. He said the only problem is he only had it in green and black. He said I don't usually take anyone into the back warehouse but let's go have a look.
Into the back we went to a row of wooden spools, each the size of my car. He said yep #12 roll ends. You can have it for 5 cents a foot. I said sold! Give me tree hundred feet of green and three hundred feet of black. I ended up with a fair bit more than the six hundred feet as after he measured out the amount on the two spools he just kept pulling until they were empty.
He also gave me $12.00 terminal strips for $4.00 each, just because it's for the MRR.
Something similar happened at the lumber yard when I went buy all the lumber for the layout. I told the guy I was using it to build my MRR. He looked at me and said "model railroad, I'll give you a good contractor price on it then". He then paused and said "HE**! I'll do even better than that", and proceeded to knock even more off. The lumber at this private yard is always way better than the big box store's.
Another good deal there is you can still scoop out your nails and screws from bins and pay by the pound. It works out to 1/6th the price of the prepackaged ones you buy at Home Depot.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
BATMAN Something similar happened at the lumber yard when I went buy all the lumber for the layout. I told the guy I was using it to build my MRR. He looked at me and said "model railroad, I'll give you a good contractor price on it then".
Something similar happened at the lumber yard when I went buy all the lumber for the layout. I told the guy I was using it to build my MRR. He looked at me and said "model railroad, I'll give you a good contractor price on it then".
Brent, you raise a good point about purchasing any construction materials in bulk, whether it be electrical wire, framing lumber, deck lumber, paint, etc.
Ask for the contractor price. I have often got 10% or 20% off.
Now that won't work for a 50 foot spool of wire, a half dozen 2x4s, or a gallon of paint, but in larger quantities, just ask.
Yep! And it is a lot easier for the owner of an independent store to drop the price than it is for Bob in aisle 12 of Home Depot to do the same.
richhotrain I am seeing 100 foot rolls of 14 gauge stranded at Home Depot for $21.60 per roll. Rich
Not where I live. Again, same for Lowes which is across the street from Home Depot here The lowest price I've found is $25 a 100 ft. roll for #14 stranded but it's with THHN insulation that is stiffer than a fence post, i.e., would be about the same hassle as running solid #14 while pushing myself around under my layout on a crawler - and at 73 and arthritis that's no longer a ho-hum task... Thanks for the reply anyway.
Check Amazon.com . I got 100 ft. spools of #12 stranded copper (and 100 ct. bags of assorted suitcase connectors,too) for a fraction of what the local hardware stores wanted.
An example:
http://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Cable-14-100-14-14-Gauge-100-Feet/dp/B000PAPZFA/ref=sr_1_7?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1361598046&sr=1-7&keywords=14+gauge+electrical+wire+100+ft#productDetails
Their deals change all the time - if this price isn't what you want,check back often.
Mike
Over50 richhotrain I am seeing 100 foot rolls of 14 gauge stranded at Home Depot for $21.60 per roll. Rich Not where I live. Again, same for Lowes which is across the street from Home Depot here The lowest price I've found is $25 a 100 ft. roll for #14 stranded but it's with THHN insulation that is stiffer than a fence post, i.e., would be about the same hassle as running solid #14 while pushing myself around under my layout on a crawler - and at 73 and arthritis that's no longer a ho-hum task... Thanks for the reply anyway.
That was the on line price which you could order and have it delivered.
You need to provide us with a little more clarification for your wire needs and uses.
If the #14 stranded with THHN insulation is not sufficiently flexible, what are you looking to use? For bus wire purposes, how flexible would the wire need to be? There shoudn't be that many loops and curves in the wire.
If the #14 stranded is too stiff, could you get away with using #16 or #18?
I use 14AWG TWHN wire for the DCC buss on my layout and two of my clubs layouts. I used that wire because I had it on hand left over from a job I did. I had to purchase more wire and it was $55 per 500 ft roles at Home Despot. You can use regular solid wire for your Buss at a considerable savings. Buy a length of Romex 14 AWG. It comes in 25', 50', 75', 100' and up lengths. I prefer stranded wire but solid wire is good too. Just be careful while stripping it. If you nick the copper it will be weaker at that point and could break if it gets bent a couple of times.
Can't crawl under the layout? I installed my clubs DCC buss on the facia of the layout. I made what is called a Duct on the old facia and ran the four power district busses inside. The Duct has a removable cover which is now the new facia. Track feeders are brought out to the Duct and connected to the buss with the use of European barrier strips which keep the buss wires seperated and secure in the Duct. No soldering either.
All Electronics, Van Nuys, California. Stock Number 14C-100. Stranded 2-conductor speaker wire, $19.00 per roll. One conductor has a white stripe to designate polarity.
http://www.allelectronics.com
You can also get a 4 color stranded spool of speaker wire.
LION bought his speaker wire here. Him buys all of his computer cables here too, but that is a different forum.
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Appreciate all the suggestions guys. Here's a link of pics of my layout-in-progress a year ago this month along with the track plan...which has since been changed nominally within the large return loop but overall is still what you see.
Given the total estimated length of the track buss with my loop to loop plus the out and back extension off of the one return loop I'm looking at 2 to 3-100 ft. #14 rolls (100 ft. for the A and B buss each (and different color) plus 1-50 ft. roll for my capacitive discharge PS common to all the snap switches (diode matrix configuration).
After reading all the suggestions methinks I'm trying to over complicate my options. Since all of this is low voltage AC (and DC for the CDU common) I could just split #14 speaker wire into two lengths and use different color marking tape at close intervals on each length to identify the A and B buss and the same for the single wire CDU common to the 34 snap switches with my track design.
If you are going to need multiple 100 foot rolls, last I checked, a 500 foot spool was only slightly more than the cost of 2 100 foot spools. I'd just get 500 foot spools - you always end up needing more than you thing.
Wiring along the fascia is a great idea, especially if it's difficult to crawl around below the layout. A feeder coming straight out to the front fo the layout is still fairly short in most palces, and if you have enough of them, the slight extra length won;t be a problem. Plus you cna connect the bus and feeders either stnading or sitting right int he aisle, no crawling around on tthe floor.
I use the THHN wire from Home Depot, it pulls fairly easily through holes in my benchwork. It would help a lot to make a simple stand with a piece of conduit and a coupel of piper brackets so the spool can unwind - I didn't do this and so as it unwids fromt he spool it tends to spiral up and that does get caught going through the hole, requiring me to go back and twist the spool to unwind it, then pull some more - repeat. A wire stand so the spool can unwind the proper way will elminate this issue.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Over50 Appreciate all the suggestions guys. Here's a link of pics of my layout-in-progress a year ago this month along with the track plan...which has since been changed nominally within the large return loop but overall is still what you see. Given the total estimated length of the track buss with my loop to loop plus the out and back extension off of the one return loop I'm looking at 2 to 3-100 ft. #14 rolls (100 ft. for the A and B buss each (and different color) plus 1-50 ft. roll for my capacitive discharge PS common to all the snap switches (diode matrix configuration). After reading all the suggestions methinks I'm trying to over complicate my options. Since all of this is low voltage AC (and DC for the CDU common) I could just split #14 speaker wire into two lengths and use different color marking tape at close intervals on each length to identify the A and B buss and the same for the single wire CDU common to the 34 snap switches with my track design.
YOUR LAYOUT IS TOO NEAT. You are spending far too much time cleaning instead of playing/building/running.
ROAR
BroadwayLion YOUR LAYOUT IS TOO NEAT. You are spending far too much time cleaning instead of playing/building/running. ROAR
retsignalmtr Can't crawl under the layout? I installed my clubs DCC buss on the facia of the layout.
Can't crawl under the layout? I installed my clubs DCC buss on the facia of the layout.
Over50 retsignalmtr Can't crawl under the layout? I installed my clubs DCC buss on the facia of the layout. Hadn't occurred to me....but with my layout design I could easily run the buss around the aisle perimeters inside the joists within 6 inches of what will the facia. Most if not all track feeders would be no more than 3 feet in length this way.....and I could scoot around on soft cushion secretary chair. Great idea!!
That is how the LION does it.
Here you go.
14 gauge, 4 color speaker wire, 100 foot spool for $40.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?seq=1&format=2&p_id=4039&CAWELAID=1329448995&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CO7OtoutzbUCFYpDMgodqy4AmA
Fantastic, Rich!! 4 colors of #14 wire each 100 ft. long and just $40. Solves the A, B, and CDU buss color differentiation issue....and I'd venture to guess this 4-conductor #14 insulation is more flexible than a single stranded wire with THHN insulation to boot.
rrinker If you are going to need multiple 100 foot rolls, last I checked, a 500 foot spool was only slightly more than the cost of 2 100 foot spools. I'd just get 500 foot spools - you always end up needing more than you thing. Wiring along the fascia is a great idea, especially if it's difficult to crawl around below the layout. A feeder coming straight out to the front fo the layout is still fairly short in most palces, and if you have enough of them, the slight extra length won;t be a problem. Plus you cna connect the bus and feeders either stnading or sitting right int he aisle, no crawling around on tthe floor. I use the THHN wire from Home Depot, it pulls fairly easily through holes in my benchwork. It would help a lot to make a simple stand with a piece of conduit and a coupel of piper brackets so the spool can unwind - I didn't do this and so as it unwids fromt he spool it tends to spiral up and that does get caught going through the hole, requiring me to go back and twist the spool to unwind it, then pull some more - repeat. A wire stand so the spool can unwind the proper way will elminate this issue. --Randy
Thanks, Randy. After reading your idea of buying a 500 foot roll (less cost option vs multiple 100 foot rolls) that I could color code with tape at close intervals was what I was going to go with.....until Rich posted the link for the 100 ft. roll of 4 conductor/4 color #14 speaker wire. But thank you for the suggestion!
Just saying - your layout looks larger than mine and I used most of a pair of 100 foot spools of wire. You might need more than you think.
But I did break mine up into 4 power districts and so have bus lines running most of the way around from the central power point for two of them, and two others doubled up down one side.
Overall dimensions are about 9x15, two bus lines halfway, plus 2 more the full length of one of the 15 foot sides. Half of a 15' side, a 9 foot length, and halfway down the other 15; side, that's 22' of wire right there. 2 of those - 44 feet so far. The another 30 feet for the two runs along a 15' side. About 74' of wire, of each color.
rrinker Just saying - your layout looks larger than mine and I used most of a pair of 100 foot spools of wire. You might need more than you think. But I did break mine up into 4 power districts and so have bus lines running most of the way around from the central power point for two of them, and two others doubled up down one side. Overall dimensions are about 9x15, two bus lines halfway, plus 2 more the full length of one of the 15 foot sides. Half of a 15' side, a 9 foot length, and halfway down the other 15; side, that's 22' of wire right there. 2 of those - 44 feet so far. The another 30 feet for the two runs along a 15' side. About 74' of wire, of each color. --Randy
I'm going to use a PM42 to break mine into 2 power districts (one for each of the 2 return loops through 2 AR1's) and a 3rd power district for the out-and-back extension section that begins off the main/large return loop pictured nearest my work bench in the photos.
I've estimated (rough measuring) the total A and B buss each at 100 ft. runs and another 100 ft. run for the snap machine common buss from my CDU. $52 including shipping for another roll of the 4 conductor speaker wire if needed won't break my bank thankfully. As you've done I'll be locating the DB150, PM42 and CDU at the mid point of the layout.
Over50 Fantastic, Rich!! 4 colors of #14 wire each 100 ft. long and just $40. Solves the A, B, and CDU buss color differentiation issue....and I'd venture to guess this 4-conductor #14 insulation is more flexible than a single stranded wire with THHN insulation to boot.
More flexible for sure.
If you could get by with thinner gauge, the 18/4 is even more flexible - - and cheaper.
richhotrain Over50 Fantastic, Rich!! 4 colors of #14 wire each 100 ft. long and just $40. Solves the A, B, and CDU buss color differentiation issue....and I'd venture to guess this 4-conductor #14 insulation is more flexible than a single stranded wire with THHN insulation to boot. More flexible for sure. If you could get by with thinner gauge, the 18/4 is even more flexible - - and cheaper. Rich
I just ordered one roll of 100 ft/4 conductor #14 speaker wire per your link. Total cost was $52 including shipping. Again, essentially 400 ft. of #14 stranded wire for just over $50 is really easy on the pocketbook.