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Soldering to Insulated Frogs (Oops)

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  • Member since
    September 2003
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Posted by mlehman on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 10:39 PM

peahrens
Well, I strongly suspect you're right.  I've been skipping tinning, so both lazy & (now) sloppy. The old live & learn thing. 

Yeah, that'll help. While I only use flux when needed, I almost always tin one or both joining surfaces. Saves a lot of hassle. Until I learned to tin, my soldering success rate was not as bad as the Cubs in post-season play, but often nearly as frustrating -- and I'm not even a baseball fan.Dunce

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

  • Member since
    April 2002
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Posted by dante on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 10:07 PM

A couple of thoughts:

•  The frogs on a W/S 3-way are relatively short.  Depending on your equipment, you might not have to power them.

•  I believe you will find that the guard rails are electrically connected to the frogs. You can verify that using a temporary wire jumper from the top.  If confirmed, you could drop a feeder to one of the guardrails from the top, a much easier task.

Dante 

  • Member since
    January 2010
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Posted by peahrens on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 7:27 PM

Well, I strongly suspect you're right.  I've been skipping tinning, so both lazy & (now) sloppy. The old live & learn thing. 

One thing I'm gonna do is take a photo of this 3-way turnout of the bottom before reinstalling, to see where the installed jumpers are.  It's a complicated thing compared to a 1-way turnout: 3 frogs, two point sets, eight-two jumpers...

I'm going to reinstall it and run a loco and car across it to see if it's reasonably ok as repaired, before installing Tortoise, adding feeders, etc.  If I can't get it running reasonably (reliable tracking and no shorts), it will have to be replaced with a new one ($60 plus time delay), carefully prepared!  I think it will be ok as it's in a loco service area and not a high speed main route...thus, a pretty fast speed test should tell the tale.

As an aside, it's hard to complain about these turnouts...they are pretty complicated and precise items and quality control, not perfect perhaps, has to be a challenge.

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

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Posted by locoi1sa on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 5:28 PM

Paul.

 I think maybe you should think about tinning both wire and rail before attachment. This way it only takes a touch not longer than a blink of an eye to solder the frog feeder. Maybe switch to a soldering pencil with a clean pointed tip instead of a gun.

  Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by peahrens on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 4:09 PM

Thanks. I didn't mention but did use flux (though I forgot it on some other connections).  My big problem here  was not creating tension/contact between the wire and frog, the way I had the alligator clip holding the wire to a tie, but the stripped part of the wire not bent down to maintain good contact.  That made it hard to quickly heat them together (longer time involved) plus requiring an excessive push (on the wire) that softened plastic and loosened or bent the frog guard rail.  Again, I just got sloppy.

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

  • Member since
    September 2003
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Posted by mlehman on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 10:19 AM

Paul,

My layout is most pre-Dcc friendly Walthers/Shinohara, but I have added on to my staging and used a few of the newer versions. I also tacked a wire in the power the frig and found it tricky like you. Didn't really mess it up, but sure made me wish they'd left a metal solder tab  on the bottom to make this easier.

You did things pretty much right until you pushed too hard, sounds like. You also said "gun" so I'm guessing you used that instead of a soldering pencil or iron. They tend to give you a better, more controllable angle than a gun for fine work like this.

Also, try flux. I don't tend to use it a lot, but with anything I need to get in and out quickly I find its help invaluable. Just needs a touch of Radio Shack rosin (non-corrosive) flux, which I use toothpicks for, and things flow easy and quick.

Mike Lehman

Urbana, IL

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • 2,616 posts
Soldering to Insulated Frogs (Oops)
Posted by peahrens on Wednesday, January 30, 2013 10:07 AM

I just placed DCC friendly (insulated frog) code 83 Walthers Shinohara turnouts #19-21 and track while making some enhancements.  I got to looking at the 3-way I put in a couple of days ago to understand an issue raised about those (potential shorting) in another thread.  Not to get off on that subject, I noticed a big mess at one of the frogs, and a to a minor degree at another (there are three). I thought I'd share my experience so others can avoid the problem I created. 

I power the frogs from the respective Tortoise contaccts, and before installing the turnout I solder a frog wire underneath, removing a part of the plastic covering the bottom of the frog between two ties to provide a connection point.  I support the turnout upside down on a couple of books and clip a couple of alligator clips underneath to the rails as heat sinks.  I then lay the frog wire on the bare frog bottom (held with another clip) and solder with a Weller gun.  Well, I made several mistakes this time.  I pushed hard enough to bend the frog guard rail against the rail, and melted much of the plastic in the frog as well.  This came from not bending the wire enought to give it good contact with the frog, so I was pushing to close the air gap, and taking too long, all bad technique. 

It may be fixable.  I've bent things pretty much back in shape and trimmed away plastic where it would be in the way.  I need to check with a gauge.  It should look ok when weathered eventually.  Anyway, it's apparent I was more careful earlier in the project and got sloppy after doing a bunch of earlier turnouts with success.

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

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