I will be 72 in 4 months and know what it is to crawl under and then try to get up again. My layout is 55" on the upper level and about 49" on the lower. The bad part is the two duck unders. I finally built a handrail on each side at about 20" off the floor, which gives me something to lean on while going under. It works quite well; now I need one on the other duckunder.
As far as the 3 amps vs 5 amps; I have about 15 sound DCC locos and haven't had more than 4 running at one time but they don't have any issues. You may want to look at the cost of the Zephyr plus the DT402D throttle and the UR92. They may cost more than a higher end system to start with. Just a thought.
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
Thanks for the photos! Neat idea to use a standard wall light switch to power on/off your layout. I see you're using the Digitrax Zephyr vs the Super Empire Builder with the DB-150 command station which is what I'd settled on.
Being new to DCC from what I read I didn't think the 3 amp capacity of the Zephyr would be enough (vs the 5 amp for Super Empire) when you factor in engine sound, lighting, etc. But from what I can see (and as you mentioned) your layout occupies a larger space than my 15'x16' footer so obviously it's sufficient for your needs. Will have to rethink the Super Empire Builder.....and for sure the more expensive option.
By the way, at the current state of my new build the top of the large loop area has become the central "put it there" location for tools, yet-to-be installed switch machines, etc., which also qualifies my layout a disaster area.
Also noticed the windows in your layout room which for you wasn't a factor in your layout height. Unfortunately in my case it is, where my layout is in the basement and I had to keep the max height even with the window sill for egress by building code. As such my "crawl space" is 34 inches which translates into needing a mechanics crawler for all of the under layout work. 35 years ago crawling around on my hands and knees wasn't a problem - AND - I didn't need bifocals to see what I was doing. But at 73 suffice to say it's a lot tougher just getting down on the crawler and back up ..... and for a casual observer a humorous sight to watch!
Sorry about any confusion, it really isn't hard to get confused with DCC sometimes. As for my layout power on and off, I use a standard toggle wall switch like in you house wiring. This turns off a power strip which has the Digitrax Zephyr, power supply for my turnouts, power to the turntable motor and a few other small power supplies. I wanted to make sure everything was off when I left the room. these photos show the main control areas on my layout. The power switch is in the first photo to the right of the Zephyr and the other photos show the yard panel and the turntable panel. As you can see I like things to be labeled and organized (not the rest of the room; that is a disaster!). My facia is permanantly attached to the layout and has about 5 UP-5 plug-in panels around the layout as well as several other turnout control panels with diagrams of the track in that area. I also have some push buttons for sound modules in some of those panels. Hope this helps a little more.
Bob, what confused me was in your first phot earlier in this thread, you only showed two wires, a red and a black.
Rich
Alton Junction
Bob....It wouldn't have occured to me to put the AR1 in an enclosure as you have. I just figured you screwed the bare ARI in place on the bench work support near the point of the reverse loop turnout and wire to it. And the additional labeling sure makes for an organized appearance. Nice Job!
If possible I would really appreciate photos of how you laid out and mounted your DCC system components and in particular how you turn your layout power on and off. I've seen photos where the Digitrax DB150, etc., was located behind a hinged fascia panel door and others where the DCC system components are on a shelf under the layout which means crawling to access it ....which I definitely won't be doing...
Rich,
The red and black wires are 14 ga bus wires that run the full length of my reverse loop section on the layout (approx. 15 feet long) from the terminal strip. In the photo attached (finally found one of the ARI) the AR1 is in the enclosure box and the wires coming in (right side) are from the main bus. The wires coming out (left side) go to the terminal strip in the previous photo. The reverse loop bus has feeders to all the track within the reverse loop. I use 22 ga wire for the feeders and connect them to the bus (14 ga) with 3M suitcase connectors (one is visible to the right in the photo of the AR1). I also use around a 24 ga solid wire soldered to the track and then soldered to the 22 ga stranded feeder wires. I do this at the bench and allow about 3-6" of solid wire (I put a right angle bend at the end and flattened it so it can be soldered to the rail flange with minimal size) soldered to the feeder and covered with shrink tube. This whole feeder wire assembly makes installation go quickly. Hope this explains everything.
Bob,
Can you explain that barrier strip wiring in a little more detail.
Where are those wires coming from and where are they going to?
And where are the jumpers?
Sorry I didn't have a more recent photo with all the wires in place, as this only shows the Reverse Loop bus wires.
farrellaa This is how I start my reverse loop bus, a simple terminal strip, which is in turn fed from the output from the AR1. That is all you need. -Bob
This is how I start my reverse loop bus, a simple terminal strip, which is in turn fed from the output from the AR1. That is all you need.
Appreciate the visual follow up.
Over50 As for "being sure the reversing section needs to be as large as I indicated" ....well....as I noted I got started in the hobby 40 years ago and show me one modeler that doesn't want the largest layout possible. But the short answer is yes - what you see is what I wanted and currently all the trackage is laid and have started installing the turnout linkages and switch machines with a diode matrix routing scheme for 35 total layout turnouts to follow.
As for "being sure the reversing section needs to be as large as I indicated" ....well....as I noted I got started in the hobby 40 years ago and show me one modeler that doesn't want the largest layout possible. But the short answer is yes - what you see is what I wanted and currently all the trackage is laid and have started installing the turnout linkages and switch machines with a diode matrix routing scheme for 35 total layout turnouts to follow.
Hi Over50,
I wasn't suggesting that you make your layout smaller.
What I was asking was whether you were certain that you needed to wire so much of it as a reversing section.
Since you are concerned about the number and length of the feeder wires, it raises the question about whether the reversing section could be shorter and, as a result, the main section would be longer.
But, no intent to remove even one small section of the layout.
Sorry if you misunderstood that.
richhotrain Over50 Thanks again for the confirmation....I'm good to go now. Just wish my old body was as nimble as it was when I was 40 crawling around under the benchwork installing and wiring plus-30 switch machines like I have ahead of me now. Getting down on the crawler isn't the problem....it's trying to get upright after a session of head bumping and swearing made worse having to contend with bifocals.... As others have indicated, the AR-1 has the capacity to route power to quite a bit of track work within a reversing section. The input side of the AR-1 is fed power from the bus wires. The output side of the AR-1 routes power to all of the feeders inside of the reversing section. Let me ask you a question about your layout from the comments you initially made. You express concern about the amount of trackage that is part of the reversing section. Are you sure that the reversing section needs to be as large as you seem to indicate? Can you provide a diagram that we can look at to see if it might be feasible, or practical, to reduce the size of the reversing section while keeping with your overall track plan? You mention how "finicky DDC feeder wire length is" in your post. How long are your feeder wires and what gauge are they? I have a fairly large layout with four AR-1 units. I use 14 gauge bus wire and only one set of main bus wires, no sub bus wires. My feeder wires are 22 gauge, and some of the run lengths are fairly long. But, I use very few feeder wires within each reversing section. How many sets of feeder wires are you using? Lastly, regarding your ability to get around comfortably under the layout, a lot of us share your concerns and physical limitations. How high is your layout, and how tall are you? My layout is 36 inches high, and I am 6 feet tall. While I still have quite a bit of flexibility for my age, it is no fun crawling under the layout to do wiring or to install Tortoises. I have conducted some simple tests and determined that if I build another layout, it will be 42 inches high. That would permit me to sit up and work on wiring connections and Tortoise installations. Right now, I have to do that from a partially reclining position with my back positioned against a couple of wedge pillows. Not fun. Rich
Over50 Thanks again for the confirmation....I'm good to go now. Just wish my old body was as nimble as it was when I was 40 crawling around under the benchwork installing and wiring plus-30 switch machines like I have ahead of me now. Getting down on the crawler isn't the problem....it's trying to get upright after a session of head bumping and swearing made worse having to contend with bifocals....
Thanks again for the confirmation....I'm good to go now. Just wish my old body was as nimble as it was when I was 40 crawling around under the benchwork installing and wiring plus-30 switch machines like I have ahead of me now. Getting down on the crawler isn't the problem....it's trying to get upright after a session of head bumping and swearing made worse having to contend with bifocals....
As others have indicated, the AR-1 has the capacity to route power to quite a bit of track work within a reversing section. The input side of the AR-1 is fed power from the bus wires. The output side of the AR-1 routes power to all of the feeders inside of the reversing section.
Let me ask you a question about your layout from the comments you initially made. You express concern about the amount of trackage that is part of the reversing section. Are you sure that the reversing section needs to be as large as you seem to indicate?
Can you provide a diagram that we can look at to see if it might be feasible, or practical, to reduce the size of the reversing section while keeping with your overall track plan?
You mention how "finicky DDC feeder wire length is" in your post. How long are your feeder wires and what gauge are they? I have a fairly large layout with four AR-1 units. I use 14 gauge bus wire and only one set of main bus wires, no sub bus wires. My feeder wires are 22 gauge, and some of the run lengths are fairly long. But, I use very few feeder wires within each reversing section. How many sets of feeder wires are you using?
Lastly, regarding your ability to get around comfortably under the layout, a lot of us share your concerns and physical limitations. How high is your layout, and how tall are you? My layout is 36 inches high, and I am 6 feet tall. While I still have quite a bit of flexibility for my age, it is no fun crawling under the layout to do wiring or to install Tortoises. I have conducted some simple tests and determined that if I build another layout, it will be 42 inches high. That would permit me to sit up and work on wiring connections and Tortoise installations. Right now, I have to do that from a partially reclining position with my back positioned against a couple of wedge pillows. Not fun.
Thanks for the reply. This is a link to pics of my layout build-in-progress 11 months ago including the track plan. The 3rd photo down is the large loop area I talked about, although at this stage of the build none of the cork roadbed and track had been laid for you to visualize it. The visiable cork road bed and base support I had down branches off of the large loop and leads to the upper out and back section w/o a reverse return loop.
My track plan has been modified somewhat from the drawing since then but essentially remains the same for the large reverse loop area. From the wall to the end of the large loop bench work measures 12 feet.
i know Digitrax recommends track feeders no further than 6 feet apart with every 3 feet being optimum and fed off a #14 buss - and feeders no longer than 3 feet, with 18 inches also optimum which is what I will do. My concern with voltage loss within the loop stemmed from not having a clear understanding of how power is fed to a reverse loop using the AR1 including the AR1 wire terminal size maximum which would be a limiting factor. Being new to DCC after 40 years of standard DC control is a new wrinkle for this oldster thus my AR1 post question.
Just to add, my working years stock in trade for 10 years was as an electrician before moving into the supervisory ranks all of which was preceded by 4 years military as a aviation electronics maintenance tech so I'm no stranger to incidentals of wire size, voltage drop, etc.
Over50 . But this said, my concern is if all power to the reverse loop trackage is in fact routed entirely through the AR1 then the terminal wire size if less than #14 may effect voltage loss and engine draw current at the extremes of the loop given how finicky DDC feeder wire length is from everything I read.
. But this said, my concern is if all power to the reverse loop trackage is in fact routed entirely through the AR1 then the terminal wire size if less than #14 may effect voltage loss and engine draw current at the extremes of the loop given how finicky DDC feeder wire length is from everything I read.
Yes. I have about the same situation.
Thanks for the reply Bob. So, just to confirm: The power for all the trackage wthin the reverse loop IS fed from the output terminals of the AR1?
My layout is a little larger than yours but what I did is run a separate bus for the reverse loop that is fed throught the AR1. The bus is 14 ga and will handle all the locos you have. Just make sure you label the bus as being for the reverse loop.
I'm an old school DC control 40 year model RR'r changing to DCC with a new loop to loop build in my "retirement condo" and it isn't clear to me if the power for the entire trackage within a reverse loop section (mainline and sidings) is routed solely through the AR-1.
One reverse loop of my layout (15' x 16' room) has a lot of mainline trackage including engine storage tracks (will be power selectable w/toggle sw's) along with railcar sidings and a 5 track yard. Since it'll be just me operating the layout there won't be more than two engines at most running at the same time within the large loop area. But this said, my concern is if all power to the reverse loop trackage is in fact routed entirely through the AR1 then the terminal wire size if less than #14 may effect voltage loss and engine draw current at the extremes of the loop given how finicky DDC feeder wire length is from everything I read.