So I used to run Lionels' and then stopped. Now I am going to make a HO layout. I have a lot of questions!
1. What is the difference between Analog and DCC. I know the difference between DC and DCC.
2. I'm looking at using the E-Z Command from Bachmann (Ya I just want really simple controls for two trains), could I run a DC train with it? I saw something about plug and play and it mentioned DC.
3. Can I run an analog on DCC?
Here's some other info about what I have and what I want to do if it helps:
- I have a bachmann starter set (The Walt Disney Carolwood set). I also just bought a very similar engine Bachmann 4-4-0 Analog engine from ebay.
-I use E-Z track and currently only have the track that was provided in the set.
-And I'm 14 :)
Thanks.
Analog is DC.
Some DCC system can run one DC loco at a time without having a decoder fitted. It mostly works but can be noisy, and leaving the DC loco parked on the DCC track and not moving will eventually cook the motor if left sitting.
Most of the time, the Bachmann train set engines aren't worth installing decoders in. Unlike the Spectrum line and even some of the newer standard line stuff, they often aren;t made easy to convert. Plus they aren't always of the best quality. For simple running around with the one or two locos, you existing DC is probably fine. If all you have is the train set power pack, you might want to upgrade to one of the basic MRC power packs for a modest cost, it will definitely help. If you decode to stick with the hobby and go further - you cna aquire a loco or two that will handle a decoder and make the move to DCC.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Ok so now I have two DC trains. As far as I know there is no way to run both on the same track without converting to DCC right? I plan to have one train moving around the track, with the other parked at a station on a siding. Can I do this with this basic MRC you are talking about? Can you explain the MRC power pack a little more please? Thanks
I have no experience with mrc power packs, but have experience with dc. In order to do what your talking about, you would need insulated rail joiners. Some dc packs have two cabs meaning you can run to trains at once as long as the rails are electrically isolated.
Ok I understand you don't have experience with this stuff, but maybe you could direct to a site that explains insulated rail joiners?
Insulated rail joiners are made of plastic or nylon. Their purpose is to create an electrical gap while still holding the rails in alignment.
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So does Bachmann E-Z track have insulated rail joiners? I'd like to use this track because it's easier and I already have some.
http://www.nmra.org/beginner/wiring.html
her's a site I used when I first built my dc layout. There are two ways to insulate it. 1. common rail wiring This is where only one rail is insulated. 2. 2 rail isolation. This is mainly used when there is a reverse loop or any where one polarity meets the other. I would assume that you are parking this locomotive on a siding so only common rail wiring would be necessary Another thing to keep in mind would be that you need a feeder to the isolated track. What I found really use full were these atlas selector switches similar to this one http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/150-215 You take your power from your cab (controller) and run it in one of the sides. From there you run wires from the top terminals to your tracks, one for each isolated section of track. I only used one terminal as I just put the outside rail as common and ran a bus which I ran the feeders for from. You can also use single poled 12v automotive switches instead.
JackMiller341Ok I understand you don't have experience with this stuff,
btw I didn't say I didn't have experience with this stuff, I said I didn't have experience with the mrc power packs. I used an old power pack that would have come with a train set. I never did upgrade my power pack because the intent was to go dcc.
JackMiller341 So does Bachmann E-Z track have insulated rail joiners? I'd like to use this track because it's easier and I already have some.
Analog? That's ancient.
Once upon a time people tried to operate trains from radio commands, either over the air, or as signals in the track. Obviously this was all proprietary, and nothing was interchangeable. Analog will not work on DCC which is digital, not analog. Unless you know what you are doing with analog and why, you are better off not using it.
That said... The LION runs "Analog Automation" on his layout. It is DC, not DCC, and it has no block controls. It has no signals of any sort to the trains. The power 12 v dc is supplied to the railroad at 15 Amps. Actually as it turns out 5 amps would have been more than enough, but since I required a regulated supply I went with this one.
The "Automation" and the "Analog" happens because before each station I cut gaps in the rail and bridged them with resistors to slow the train down as it approaches the station. Once in the station a gap stops the train. After a while a timer pulls a relay and the train picks up speed as it crosses another set of resistors and proceeds on its way.. So the tracks themselves are the controls that operate the train. This is because LIONS like to keep things simple. And face it, the layout can run eight trains at once, all operating independently of each other. You can watch my trains running on my website. Select the VIDEO link and watch the train run by itself.
But maybe you are not a LION and are not looking to build something as weird as I. Oh well.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
JackMiller341 Ok so now I have two DC trains. As far as I know there is no way to run both on the same track without converting to DCC right?
Ok so now I have two DC trains. As far as I know there is no way to run both on the same track without converting to DCC right?
You can run two DC locomotives on the same track provided you don't mind them chasing each other around your tracks when you supply the rails with power. If you turn one loco around, they'll still chase each other because turning the loco around reverses the direction of movement for the motor, but you have the loco facing the way you just turned it. So, it will move in reverse to the way you just turned it, which is precisely the same direction as a moment ago. If you want to park one, you must park it on track that isn't getting any power. If you have the rails getting power under it, it will move. That is why DC/analog operaters have to use blocks that turn off and turn on power. You can also run a DC engine on some DCC systems, but the motors tend to be noisy due to the cycle of the current in DCC, which is really an alternating current. The motors want to start and reverse quickly in tune with the pulses, but the frequency sounds like a squeal or a growl. Not pretty. Also, you can run most modern DCC locomotives on DC rails, but the decoder inside must be set to detect which current it is getting and then act according to the current.
JackMiller341 I plan to have one train moving around the track, with the other parked at a station on a siding. Can I do this with this basic MRC you are talking about? Can you explain the MRC power pack a little more please? Thanks
I plan to have one train moving around the track, with the other parked at a station on a siding. Can I do this with this basic MRC you are talking about? Can you explain the MRC power pack a little more please? Thanks
As I said, you must somewow gap the tracks under the parked locomotive and stop power to it. A toggle will do that, but so will a basic decoder, and you don't even have to have any gaps. The decoders getting DCC signal will meter power to the motor. If you don't input any speed settings, the decoder will not send any power to the motor. Locomotive sits, even though the full voltage and available amperage are right there at the rails.
As for the basic MRC, you are talking about an analog transformer power supply? As you dial up voltage, all motors exposed to the powered rails will begin to move and any lignts will begin to glow. If you want one loco to appear to be parked, and you don't want it to move, don't feed the rails under the locomotive with any power. That is why you must isolate those rails at a convenient set of gaps, and only power the rails when you flip a toggle that completes the circuit to that segment of track.
Specifically i was referring to the MRC Railpower 1370 power pack. It's significantly better than the cheapy ones that come with most train sets. It won't really gain much other than smoother operation You can then use the one from the train set to run lights in your buildings - I started way younger than you and it was just something we always did, put lights in all the houses and factories in our town, and I've always done interior lighting ever since, it just brongs the whole layout to life.
Besides the already mentioned resources, you might want to pick up a couple of the Atlas books on track plans and wiring. They will show you how to wires things as described, both simple on/off switches for isolated sidings to park one loco while you run another all the way up to everything you need to use two power packs and run 2 trains at the same time. The track plans may work with bachmann track, or you can move to the Atlas equivalent, which has allt he compnents to build any of their layouts int he plan books, Neat thing about the Atlas track with the palstic roadbed, you can remove the track fromt he plastic roadbed and attach it to more traditional roadbed and ballast it when you have an idea for a more permanent layout. For a small dolalr investment, and some time spent reading, I think these books will be very helpful for you to figure out how all this works and be ready for making something more fun and interesting to run than a simple loop. For less than the cost of going DCC< you can get a couple of boosk adn a whole bunch of track and get a little experience in building and operating a layout - then you can better decide if going DCC will benefit your long-term goals.
For multiple train DC operation you have two options. The first allows the movement of one train at a time, while the other is parked somewhere. You can put plastic rail-joiners in standard HO track where you need them and then control the current to that track in conjunction with the switch that leads to it. No Iron, No Power. If you are using plastic track sets, you may have to cut these gaps with a motor tool or a saw, and then use a soldering Iron to connect the wire.
ALL of the LION'S switches control track power to the next section. The switch must be aligned for the train to move.
The other method that you will want to look at is a little more complicated. It is called BLOCK CONTROL. It uses the same sorts of gaps as I have described above, but it divides your main line into several sections. Each section is supplied by a toggle switch that selects either transformer 1 or transformer 2. Now you can run two trains at once, each using its own throttle, and as long as you do not run into the other guy's block you will be ok. The wiring gets more complicated of course, but a competent 14 year old can figure it out very quickly, so the question is: Do you want to put this much effort into a first layout? Especially with DCC waiting for you around the corner. If you can work a TV set remote control, you can run your trains on DCC.
Unfortunately, the LION cannot work a TV remote, him has big furry paws and pushes all of the buttons at once. DCC does not like that and sends up clouds of blue smoke, and then stops working. LIONS are far better off sticking with his own creation.
Consider Digitrax Zephyr Plus for DCC. It's not that much more but is fully expandable and works well with JMRI and various decoders, plus has a lot of support options.
You can get it for around $160 http://www.digitrax.com/products/starter-sets/zepx/
Richard
Train Modeler Consider Digitrax Zephyr Plus for DCC. It's not that much more but is fully expandable and works well with JMRI and various decoders, plus has a lot of support options. You can get it for around $160 http://www.digitrax.com/products/starter-sets/zepx/ Richard
Why no the nce power cab? It's just under the zephyr at $155.96 http://www.horizonhobbytrains.com/products/power-cab-dcc-starter-set-NCE5240025
it's just as expandible and has 20+ functions. It's a walk around cab and really easy to understand. Setup takes less than 5 minutes in most cases (unless you make the mistake of pluging it in the right port then you go in circles) Any how it's up to the owner and what he decides. Whether dc or dcc, trains are trains.
First of all, thanks you all for helping me out with this problem and for giving me a very nice warm welcome into this community.
After reading all of your comments about wiring, blocks, and stuff, I think that I will get a Tech 4 280 Dual Power and just have two small seperate tracks. I have a small table which will be able to handle two ovals. For now, it's easier. If I ever have any other questions, I'll come to you guys first.
Thanks!