Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Stay Alive Capacitors

13916 views
24 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Texas
  • 2,934 posts
Posted by C&O Fan on Tuesday, February 5, 2013 5:05 PM

kbkchooch

C&O Fan

 Sounds right but i would Check with Jack at Litchfield Station to be sure

jack@litchfieldstation.com

 

Sent email Sunday, Tues pm, still no answer. Would I be better off calling?Huh?

A call couldn't hurt

PHONE: 623-298-7355

Someone on our TEAM is available to answer the phone and eMails week days:

We are on Mountain STANDARD time (UTC/GMT -7 hours) - that's the same as Pacific time during the summer and Mountain time during the winter. We don't change to daylight time - we don't need more afternoon in the summer!

  • 10 to 5 MST Monday to Friday (1000 - 1700)

If you miss us, leave a message and we will get back to you!

FAX: 623-889-5617

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Central Absurdistan
  • 1,179 posts
Posted by kbkchooch on Tuesday, February 5, 2013 5:02 PM

No worries, I was right!Big Smile

at least according to this! http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/mainnorth/alive.htm

Karl

NCE über alles! Thumbs Up

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Central Absurdistan
  • 1,179 posts
Posted by kbkchooch on Tuesday, February 5, 2013 4:44 PM

C&O Fan

 Sounds right but i would Check with Jack at Litchfield Station to be sure

jack@litchfieldstation.com

 

Sent email Sunday, Tues pm, still no answer. Would I be better off calling?Huh?

Karl

NCE über alles! Thumbs Up

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Texas
  • 2,934 posts
Posted by C&O Fan on Friday, February 1, 2013 4:44 PM

kbkchooch

Applying that same logic to a TSU 750, if I were to install a TCS KA2

Black and white striped (gnd) wire goes to the green and yellow wire, and then blue to blue? Right?

Just want to check myself before I do this, i know enough about electricity to hurt myself! Big Smile

 Sounds right but i would Check with Jack at Litchfield Station to be sure

jack@litchfieldstation.com

 

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Central Absurdistan
  • 1,179 posts
Posted by kbkchooch on Friday, February 1, 2013 4:34 PM

Applying that same logic to a TSU 750, if I were to install a TCS KA2

Black and white striped (gnd) wire goes to the green and yellow wire, and then blue to blue? Right?

Just want to check myself before I do this, i know enough about electricity to hurt myself! Big Smile

Karl

NCE über alles! Thumbs Up

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Texas
  • 2,934 posts
Posted by C&O Fan on Sunday, January 27, 2013 8:26 AM

The Problem with the wiring instructions from the TCS site is that you have to remove the shrink wrap to find the negitive ground on the decoder

REMOVING THE SHRINK WRAP VOIDS THE DECODER WARRANTY

Using Jack from litchfield station's wiring instructions you simply wire The black striped wire to the blackwire on the existing Capacitor and wiring the blue wire to the blue comon on the decoder

This avoids wiring to the decoders board witch is small and difficult to solder to with out messing up

I just finished installing my second KA2 and this wiring method works great for an old man with shaky hands

 

YOUR CHOICE

 

Edited

Sorry i should have said that the  Marcus site shows the decoder with the shrink wrap removed

this is the site that TCS refers people to for wiring instructions

 

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Victoria, Australia
  • 72 posts
Posted by taildisk on Sunday, January 27, 2013 7:38 AM

I’m with ‘Randy’ on this one – if you want details WITH circuits, go to

Marcus' site here: http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/mainnorth/alive.htm

Rob

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Texas
  • 2,934 posts
Posted by C&O Fan on Friday, January 18, 2013 3:59 AM

Happy to report that it worked great the loco now goes thru all the turn outs and all the way around the layout with no stalls

See the video here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKcygFhhTWo

sorry it's a bit shaky

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Western, MA
  • 8,571 posts
Posted by richg1998 on Wednesday, January 16, 2013 9:33 AM

Metro Red Line

Is there a use for these capacitors to keep passenger car lighting constantly lit? I hate seeing them flicker like there;s a strobe-light disco inside the train.

Some use a super capacitor. There are flicker free ideas and products available. Do a Google search for:

flicker free car lighting. I will let you do the research.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Texas
  • 2,934 posts
Posted by C&O Fan on Wednesday, January 16, 2013 6:21 AM

Metro Red Line

Is there a use for these capacitors to keep passenger car lighting constantly lit? I hate seeing them flicker like there;s a strobe-light disco inside the train.

You could use them for passenger cars but given thier size there are better choices for constant lighting that fit better

The KA2 is a little over an inch long and about 1/2 in wide

If you google Constant lighting you'll find several products Here's just a few

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Under The Streets of Los Angeles
  • 1,150 posts
Posted by Metro Red Line on Wednesday, January 16, 2013 12:04 AM

Is there a use for these capacitors to keep passenger car lighting constantly lit? I hate seeing them flicker like there;s a strobe-light disco inside the train.

  • Member since
    December 2012
  • 157 posts
Posted by Redvdub1 on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 7:01 PM

I had similar problems with my (DC) Rivarossi Berkshire..I found considerable improvement by adding a spring to the tender truck so as to press "upwards" on the phos-bronze contact springs to make better contact to the tender body.  I got better results with conical springs that I got from a Lionel parts vendor at the local Gberg show.   I "plan" to further improve the tender rail contact pathways by adding a 30 gauge wire to the phos-bronze springs and bringing it to the tender body somewhere.  The engine does not "stop and go" any more. I'll do that when I convert the Berk to DCC. 

I am planning to add a "stay alive" decoder to my other long-wheel base steamers to see if they can "roll over" some trackage problems  (aka ski jumps) on the club layouts..particularly when they are hauling long freights of 20++ cars.  My first project will be a BLI 2-10-4 that can easily haul 45-55 coal cars. 

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 4:52 PM

 See also Marcus' site here: http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/mainnorth/alive.htm

What Tom did works because ESU specifically has a pair of connections (actually 3 - since they can use the Lenz USP module directly as well) provided on the decoder to connect a stay-alive capacitor. On top of that, they show the correct circuit int he manual - using a resitor and regualr diode so that you don;t have a current inrush problem. Likely it is enough capacitance to keep things going, but the TCS modules are even greater value and can keep the loco moving for much longer than any single electrolytic of sufficient voltage that will physically fit - alas the TCS KA1 or KA2 will never fit in those little Baldwin switchers, even hacking them and rearranging them as Marcus shows. Probably not needed anyway - back when I got my first one of those Stewart switchers, I tested it on DC - at full speed freely running it drew 25ma. yes, MILLIAMPS. The motor is so efficient that if I cut off the power, the BEMF was enough to keep the headlight LED on until the loco coasted to a stop. So, hooking a TCS KA2 to one of those and it could probably run a half hour with no track power.

              --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Texas
  • 2,934 posts
Posted by C&O Fan on Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:36 PM

For anyone interested here are the wiring instructions for the Keep alive KA2

from Jack at Litchfield station

On the TSU-1000, the existing capacitor only keeps the sound alive. To connect a TCS Keep-Alive or any other capacitor to keep the whole system alive, connect the negative (the stripped wire on the TCS) to the black wire on the existing capacitor, and connect the positive (the blue wire on the TCS) to the blue decoder wire.

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Texas
  • 2,934 posts
Posted by C&O Fan on Wednesday, January 9, 2013 6:24 PM

Train Modeler

C&O Fan

Train Modeler

The Tsunami's come with a keep alive capacitor, around 220microf.   Just use a larger one.  I use up to 1000microf.     I have one of those locos and added weight in the front of the boiler, everywhere I could fit some in(even in the floor of the cab), to avoid traction tires and get better pickup.   Helped a lot.

Richard

Yes Richard they do come with a capacitor but that is only for the sound portion of the decoder

not the motor

I was surprised by this

See below in quotes from the TCS website

"The “larger” Tsunamis come with a 220 uF “Stay Alive” capacitor soldered to the decoder with long leads and ONLY provides Stay Alive for the sound section of the decoder that is NO Motor Stay Alive"

I don't think that's the case, nor do many who work on them.   I can tell you it works and have installed about 40 of them.   Check this out for reference and more.

http://www.mrdccu.com/curriculum/soundtraxx/tsunami.htm

Richard

Why would they say it if it' weren't true ?

Since i will buy it from litchfield station  i will ask them but they have already said they use

the TCS stay alive on thier steam installs

I haven't talked to Bruce since he sold out

 

I wish I could just un plug the little one and plug in a bigger one but

thats not the way the TCS Capacitor is installed

 

 

 

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: South Carolina
  • 1,719 posts
Posted by Train Modeler on Wednesday, January 9, 2013 5:15 PM

C&O Fan

Train Modeler

The Tsunami's come with a keep alive capacitor, around 220microf.   Just use a larger one.  I use up to 1000microf.     I have one of those locos and added weight in the front of the boiler, everywhere I could fit some in(even in the floor of the cab), to avoid traction tires and get better pickup.   Helped a lot.

Richard

Yes Richard they do come with a capacitor but that is only for the sound portion of the decoder

not the motor

I was surprised by this

See below in quotes from the TCS website

"The “larger” Tsunamis come with a 220 uF “Stay Alive” capacitor soldered to the decoder with long leads and ONLY provides Stay Alive for the sound section of the decoder that is NO Motor Stay Alive"

I don't think that's the case, nor do many who work on them.   I can tell you it works and have installed about 40 of them.   Check this out for reference and more.

http://www.mrdccu.com/curriculum/soundtraxx/tsunami.htm

Richard

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Texas
  • 2,934 posts
Posted by C&O Fan on Wednesday, January 9, 2013 4:26 PM

Train Modeler

The Tsunami's come with a keep alive capacitor, around 220microf.   Just use a larger one.  I use up to 1000microf.     I have one of those locos and added weight in the front of the boiler, everywhere I could fit some in(even in the floor of the cab), to avoid traction tires and get better pickup.   Helped a lot.

Richard

Yes Richard they do come with a capacitor but that is only for the sound portion of the decoder

not the motor

I was surprised by this

See below in quotes from the TCS website

"The “larger” Tsunamis come with a 220 uF “Stay Alive” capacitor soldered to the decoder with long leads and ONLY provides Stay Alive for the sound section of the decoder that is NO Motor Stay Alive"

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: South Carolina
  • 1,719 posts
Posted by Train Modeler on Wednesday, January 9, 2013 4:14 PM

The Tsunami's come with a keep alive capacitor, around 220microf.   Just use a larger one.  I use up to 1000microf.     I have one of those locos and added weight in the front of the boiler, everywhere I could fit some in(even in the floor of the cab), to avoid traction tires and get better pickup.   Helped a lot.

Richard

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Texas
  • 2,934 posts
Posted by C&O Fan on Wednesday, January 9, 2013 3:29 PM

tstage

Terry,

Below is a homemade keep-alive cap for a LokSound Select decoder in a Stewart VO-660 switcher - per their specs in their Select manual:

With some assistance from Randy (rrinker), I ordered the parts (3, total) from Digi-Key and it cost a whopping ~$1.50 plus S&H.  The cap is only connected to two pads on the decoder: U+ and GND.

The biggest challenge was making sure that the cap fit inside the cab.  I had to remove the molded interior and it just fit - i.e. with little wiggle room to spare.  I don't know if Soundtraxx has something similar but it may be worth looking into and will save you $$$.  Obviously, you'd probably have more room inside the tender for the decoder and keep-alive cap.

And the keep-alive cap works great!  Now I just need something similar (and smaller) for the flickering headlight.  This particular decoder seems to be extra sensitive to less than pristine track.

Tom

Wow Tom that sure beats the 39$ price tag for the TCS one

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Texas
  • 2,934 posts
Posted by C&O Fan on Wednesday, January 9, 2013 3:26 PM

DigitalGriffin

http://www.mrdccu.com/curriculum/soundtraxx/tsunami.htm

(scroll down a bit on his page, you'll find it on the link above)

The titan directly supports the keep alive capacitor by TCS through a special wire on the decoder.

I believe you have a better knowledge of C&O history then me Terry, and I imagine you already know this but....The F-19's were the biggest of the Pacific/Hudson classes ever built.  It might warrant a Large steam believe it or not.  (When I listen to videos of the L1's which were basically the same engine the sound closer to Tsunami Heavy Steam)  I reserve Medium for Mikes, 2-8-0's, 0-8-0's and light for 0-6-0, tanker  and logging engines.

When I stood next to the L1a in The B&O I realized it's actually a quite sizeable engine.


Have you considered going brass Terry?  :-)

 I'm very sad to see the only real survivor #490, rusting to pieces. :-(  It's such a beautiful engine.

Yes you are right about the size

when i was deciding on a decoder i went with the medium steam because the articulated sound wasn't needed

but given the poor whistle choices i wish now i had gone with the heavy steam

I have infact considered brass although some have serious electrical isolation problems

but may go that route if this doesn't work

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Texas
  • 2,934 posts
Posted by C&O Fan on Wednesday, January 9, 2013 3:19 PM

MisterBeasley

Does the engine pick up power from the drivers and the tender wheels?  If so, then you shouldn't have a problem with stalling.  You might want to check the continuity by using a meter set to either the continuity test (beeper) or a low ohms value.  All the wheels on each side should show up as connected to each other.

I have a small tank engine, a Bachmann 0-6-0T.  I found that cleaning the wheels and the track made a world of difference in how this engine ran.

I did look into a TCS KA decoder for this engine, but it wasn't going to fit.

Yes it does pick up  from the leading boggie and the drivers (But 2 of 3 have traction tires)

and the tender 

the traction tires are necessary because of the loco's light weight

i can add weight to the tender but very little to the loco

i clean the track often and all of my locos run well except this one

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

Moderator
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 17,249 posts
Posted by tstage on Wednesday, January 9, 2013 2:24 PM

Terry,

Below is a homemade keep-alive cap for a LokSound Select decoder in a Stewart VO-660 switcher - per their specs in their Select manual:

With some assistance from Randy (rrinker), I ordered the parts (3, total) from Digi-Key and it cost a whopping ~$1.50 plus S&H.  The cap is only connected to two pads on the decoder: U+ and GND.

The biggest challenge was making sure that the cap fit inside the cab.  I had to remove the molded interior and it just fit - i.e. with little wiggle room to spare.  I don't know if Soundtraxx has something similar but it may be worth looking into and will save you $$$.  Obviously, you'd probably have more room inside the tender for the decoder and keep-alive cap.

And the keep-alive cap works great!  Now I just need something similar (and smaller) for the flickering headlight.  This particular decoder seems to be extra sensitive to less than pristine track.

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Pa.
  • 3,361 posts
Posted by DigitalGriffin on Wednesday, January 9, 2013 2:16 PM

http://www.mrdccu.com/curriculum/soundtraxx/tsunami.htm

(scroll down a bit on his page, you'll find it on the link above)

The titan directly supports the keep alive capacitor by TCS through a special wire on the decoder.

I believe you have a better knowledge of C&O history then me Terry, and I imagine you already know this but....The F-19's were the biggest of the Pacific/Hudson classes ever built.  It might warrant a Large steam believe it or not.  (When I listen to videos of the L1's which were basically the same engine the sound closer to Tsunami Heavy Steam)  I reserve Medium for Mikes, 2-8-0's, 0-8-0's and light for 0-6-0, tanker  and logging engines.

When I stood next to the L1a in The B&O I realized it's actually a quite sizeable engine.


Have you considered going brass Terry?  :-)

 I'm very sad to see the only real survivor #490, rusting to pieces. :-(  It's such a beautiful engine.

Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions

Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,483 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Wednesday, January 9, 2013 1:58 PM

Does the engine pick up power from the drivers and the tender wheels?  If so, then you shouldn't have a problem with stalling.  You might want to check the continuity by using a meter set to either the continuity test (beeper) or a low ohms value.  All the wheels on each side should show up as connected to each other.

I have a small tank engine, a Bachmann 0-6-0T.  I found that cleaning the wheels and the track made a world of difference in how this engine ran.

I did look into a TCS KA decoder for this engine, but it wasn't going to fit.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Texas
  • 2,934 posts
Stay Alive Capacitors
Posted by C&O Fan on Wednesday, January 9, 2013 1:17 PM

I installed a Tsunami Medium Steam decoder in my Rivarossi F-19 pacific

But due to its light weight it stalls a lot

Have you had any success with installing Stay alive capacitors from TCS
if so where do they attach to the decoder ?
I currently have it on the work bench installing more weight in the tender but doubt that will help much
 
 
Sad thing is no one makes a modern version of this loco
I would love to see Bachman come out with one as they were the primary passenger loco from Thurmond to Cincy on the C&O

TerryinTexas

See my Web Site Here

http://conewriversubdivision.yolasite.com/

 

 

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!