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loksound. come back from the dead.

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  • Member since
    February 2012
  • From: Derbyshire, England
  • 31 posts
loksound. come back from the dead.
Posted by chris86 on Monday, January 7, 2013 10:00 PM
Couple of week back I had a loksound V4 mirco decoder die on me. The model stopped mid running for no reason. The decoder was fitted to a Bachmann ge45 ton switcher by myself and assumed this was project to far for the unit (or me)

Tonight I was about to remove the decoder and send for repair, without a sales invoice this is going to cost .
In hope I placed to model on some test track hoping it work, to my shock the sound and lights come on!!!! But with a buzzing sound from what I believe to be the motor. I'm living in hope that the unit can be saved along with my wallet.

The question to night gents, has anyone got a clue or had this happen to them??
What could be the problem???

Chris
da1
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Alberta, Canada
  • 219 posts
Posted by da1 on Monday, January 7, 2013 10:37 PM

Sounds like the decoder shut down on motor overcurrent.  After cooling off it returned from the dead.  Buzzing motor doesn't sound good.  I'd look for something jamming the motor mechanically thus causing high motor current and decoder overheating.

D

  • Member since
    January 2011
  • 893 posts
Posted by PennCentral99 on Monday, January 7, 2013 10:50 PM

Ok, so the sound and lights come on. Does it move? It could have resorted to DC, which could be the buzzing you hear

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  • Member since
    February 2012
  • From: Derbyshire, England
  • 31 posts
Posted by chris86 on Monday, January 7, 2013 11:20 PM
It will move a short distance then shut down. Plan is to strip chassis to see if motor or leads have come into contact with chassis sides. Only thing I can think of.
  • Member since
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  • From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
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Posted by cacole on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 8:34 AM

It sounds like you have overloaded the micro and its internal circuit breaker is shutting it down.  That decoder is rated for only .75A motor current, and the model you have installed it into probably draws more current than that, especially if pulling a heavy load.

You need to measure the motor's stall current draw to see if it's more than, or very close to, 3/4 Amp.  Then disassemble, clean, and lubricate all moving parts to see if the amperage draw can be reduced.

  • Member since
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  • 29 posts
Posted by Tom M. on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 9:24 AM

While you are checking things, make sure you check for cracked axle gears.  If one or more is cracked, they will sometimes bind or cause excessive motor load that leads to increased amp draw.  In response, decoders will go into thermal protection mode and shut down until it has time to cool.

Good luck,

Tom

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: South Carolina
  • 1,719 posts
Posted by Train Modeler on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 10:17 AM

As I recall those 45 toners use 2 motors.  So you are probably over amping.   When you check the draw, do it on each and then add the amps.   You may find one motor is drawing too much.    How did you wire the motors--series/parallel?

Richard

  • Member since
    February 2012
  • From: Derbyshire, England
  • 31 posts
Posted by chris86 on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 2:03 PM
I stripped and cleaned all parts, fresh oil all around.
Had a quick check of gears and seem to be fine. Check more closely tomorrow when cleaning inside of gear towers. Although the gear towers seemed to be very tight moving when checking.
The models been runing lite all afternoon with no repeat of shutting down.
I dont have a amp meter to check draw of motor... get one this week to check.
The model only as one smll motor driving both towers. I believe the older 44ton switcher had two.

Is it possible that changing cv setting for motor control could have overloaded the unit??

Thanks for the reply so far.

Chris
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
  • 13,757 posts
Posted by cacole on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 4:38 PM

It's not very likely that CV settings could cause the decoder to overload unless you set some that conflict with each other, like VMID and VMAX reversed; but I don't think even this would cause overheating.

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Eastern Shore Virginia
  • 3,290 posts
Posted by gandydancer19 on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 5:13 PM

I had a similar situation with a Bachmann loco and Loksound decoder.  My loco was a Shay.  Almost exactly what you are describing was happening to me. 

After about a year (on and off) I looked into the Bachmann circuit board.  There are two tiny chokes (coils) in series with the motor wires and a capacitor across the motor leads.  I removed the cap and chokes.  Since the chokes are in series with the motor, I had to replace them with a jumper.  No more problems. 

These items are put there to reduce motor electrical noise and interference with TV's and such when running the loco on DC.

Elmer.

The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.

(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.

  • Member since
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Posted by locoi1sa on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 5:41 PM

I had to replace a couple of motors in Bachmann 44 toners. The motors had shorted and Bachmann sent me new ones.

   Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

  • Member since
    February 2012
  • From: Derbyshire, England
  • 31 posts
Posted by chris86 on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 6:37 PM
I removed the bachmann borad completely in this model to save space, the 45ton switcher is alot smaller then a 44ton switcher. Although looking at board after it could have been fitted by removing the dcc chip builded into one end of the board and refitting with a micro v4. Make senses as bachmann chips are made by loksound... see if it works on next switcher.
Next step check motor current and clean, oil tower and keep fingers crossed it keeps working or I find that sales invoice!

Chris
  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Ontario Canada
  • 3,574 posts
Posted by Mark R. on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 6:59 PM

Unless something has recently changed, Bachmann's decoders are made by Lenz.

When doing the calculations for total current draw, the motor is just one factor. The current load used by all the extra functions needs to be factored in as well. If you have 250ma worth of lights on an engine, that brings the motor control circuit down to 1/2 amp from 3/4.

 

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

  • Member since
    February 2012
  • From: Derbyshire, England
  • 31 posts
Posted by chris86 on Tuesday, January 8, 2013 9:54 PM

Thank you everyone for your contribution and advice.

Motor overload sound to be culprit of the fault.

I'll check the actual motor load in next couple of days and undate once i get a meter. 

Chris.

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