Hey Elmer,
Thanks for the reply and the links, I had visited your website recently and to date yours has the most information on how to setup a standalone Loconet Signalling System with a NCE System and is detailed quite well.
From the information I'm starting to gather I should be able to get started with a SEC8c, BDL168, Loconet to USB connection, UP5 Panel, and some Tortoise Motors. And make a decision on which brand of signal I'll be using, at this stage NJ International are looking the goods, as I'm modelling the Reading/Conrail merger era (80's - 90's) I'll be looking firstly at the G Type signals, but I'd also consider modern three light as I'm not concerned about being totally prototypical about the signals.
I have a section on our layout that has a long straight section of main (10') with three sidings located either side of the main. I'll start off by signalling this one small section and see how I go with that, the wiring and soldering I should be right with, I also have a multimeter and the tools to make my own Loconet Cabling & Crimping tools too.
I'll take your offer of the components list too and I'll PM you in the next day or two.
Jas...
What's wierd is I live in Reading too, but no realtion to a Jim. Not related to Harry the antique guy either, although he went to the same college I did (not at the same time), or the other Randy, who is prt of the boat building family and races powerboats (and wierd about that one, he's about the same age as me).
ANyway, as far as the Tam Valley servos go, I've actually found them cheaper than Tortoises - I buy the servos themselves from one of a few dozen ebay supplies, that cost well under $2US each, and even here I get them quickly (they all come from China) - should be even faster for you. I only buy the controllers from Tam Valley. I've been using the Singlets, which are DCC but not Loconet, and I even save a couple bucks there by getting the kit version - kit in this case means you solder on 2 pushbuttons and 2 LEDs - takes all of a minute. When you realize that what all you get is a point motor, a DCC accessory decoder, and pushbuttons and indicator LEDs for the fascia, and then compare to a Torotise plus a toggle switch plus LEDs plus an accessory decoder - it works out the same or less.
But nothing wrong with Tortoises, they've been around for years and between ones I;ve used and two clubs I've been in, NEVER seen one fail. If you control them with the Digitrax DS64, you cna have fascia buttons that will report the command back to JMRI, although they won;t have the lock feature. I worked out how to do the lock while controlling the Tortise with a really inexpensive decoder like the NCE SwitchIt or Switch8 - in fact way back when I uncovered a bug in the JMRI Logix trying to do this. My fascia buttons fed into a Loconet interfae board, in my case I used a LocoIO from Hans Deloof (DIY Loconet accessories - you can get a bare PC board from Hans and source components locally, last one I built cost me maybe $20 in parts, the LocoIO gets you 16 lines for inputs or outputs or any combination). Puth the local button, it generated a Loconet message the JMRI can respond to, and then using logic coupled with the 'switch' on the on-screen CTC panel, it either sent out a switch command to the actual turnout address if the turnout was unlocked, or just ignored it. Simulating the behavior fo the local control off option that's in the Quad-LN board from Tam Valley, at the expensive of some more equipment. The Tower Controller cna be used for inputs like this, and CML has a board made for this as well. If you go for clusterd control panels, the neat thing is you can make a control panel that plug into the layout with a single Loconet cable, plus maybe a power supply plug, instead of a whole hunk of wires.
Definitely a lot involved, and LOTS of options to bring it off. I currently don;t have signals or detection as my layout models a branch that was TT/TO operated, however I am in the midst of designing a different layout which is not a specific representation of anything and I am planning to fully signal it. Also our club layout is fully signaled using a mix of Digitrax and RR-CirKits components. The trains are run by Digitrax, but there is a seperate Loconet for the detection and signalling - the signals follow modern contemporary NORAC procedures (guy who built most of it is VP of signals for a local shortline) with lots of flashing indications and the way JMRI default to make a flashign aspect is to literally send ON and OFF commands constantly to flash the particular lamp. With lots of these PLUS trying to run trains, it was loading down the Loconet so they put in a seperate bus for the signals. For whatever silly reason they put a command station on this, even though it wasn't needed for anything. Some signal controllers have options to make flashing aspects where the flash is generated locally in the control, this is clearly more efficient then a constant flood of Loconet messages and would be the preferred way to go, but this is usually limited to one particular lamp, whereas the signals we have need to flash different lamps depending on the aspect.
Like gandydancer said, you definitely need to be handy with wiring and so forth to pull this off effectively. Not a problem for me, it;s my favorite thing to do (really!). I haven't gotten far enough along into programming microcontrollers like PICs and Aurdinos to actually build my own controllers (I can do the signal side - not so much on the Loconet side of it), but putting together boards like the ones I got from Hans Deloof is no trouble at all.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Jas, Here are a couple of links that will get you started.
http://www.waynes-trains.com/site/Signals/Model-Railroad-Signaling.html
http://www.waynes-trains.com/site/LocoNet/LocoNet-for-Non-Digitrax-Layouts.html
I am using the Digitrax boards with my NCE Power Pro DCC system, and am doing just what you want to do. (BDL-168 for block detection, SE8C for signals and Tortoise controls, and DS64 for additional Tortoise control. Tortoises are controlled from the JMRI Panel Pro and local control panels.) The reason that I chose to use them was that as I was setting up and installing the signaling system for our Club's Digitrax layout, I liked them so much that I decided to see if I could use them on my own NCE layout at home.
You are going to have to build a LocoNet to connect everything together, but you won't need a Digitrax Command Station, Booster, or Throttle. (The LocoNet cables are built the same as the NCE Cab Bus cables.)
As for a list of components, I would suggest that you download and read the manuals for anything you are considering, then make your list as you go along. However, if you really want a list of stuff you will need, send me a Private Message through this site. Also, you should not be electrically challenged. You are going to need to have a little more than a basic understanding of wiring, plus some soldering skills to pull this off. You are most likely also going to have to have a Digital Multimeter and know how to use it. (I did) You are also going to need the tools to build your own cables.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Thanks for the quick reply Randy, your not a relation of Jim Rinker from Reading PA are you?
I new that within the replies I'd get someone referring me to the RR-CirKits because I had been told to look at them before, I have had a look and they do look good but because I am completely new at signalling I was a little daunted by using multiple manufactures in case of issues with comparability, and I'd like to keep everything from one supplier if possible.
Also because I'm in Australia it is a little hard to get someone locally to drop in and offer some help, thanks for the link to the website for the guy doing the Digitrax with NCE system I'll look at that for sure. I'm currently using Wi Throttle on both an iPhone & iPad so I'm on the right track with JMRI and using an independent system. At this stage I'll be using Tortoise motors but that can be changed if necessary.
i really like the idea of the Tam Valley servo lock out you spoke about, I've looked at them but I think they are little pricey compared with Tortoise motors. I'll look into things a little further and see how I go, to put it in a nut shell I'm after a quick and easy system that is almost plug & play for installation but with flexibility to alter the system.
thanks for your quick advice.
Well, at first this won;t make it any easier - because you have MANY choices, not just Digitrax-branded components. I suggest taking a look at RR-CirKits and the Tower Controller - in fact I think there is an article on the site about building a standalone Loconet (no Digitrax command station). I prefer detectors that use current transformers, so they don't cause a voltage drop to the track like those that use diodes, like the BDL-168.
Turnout control will depend on what sort of switch motors you have. If you don;t have any yet, I've become a fan of Tam Valley's servo controllers. They have options for local fascia controllers so you can run both ways. Their new Loconet 4-servo controller has a cool option for on the fly programming to disable the local buttons, so you can have a local control toggle on your JMRI panel, and when it is in the locked position, the operators can press the buttons til they are blue in the face and the turnout won;t move. The dispatcher can unlock the turnout on request and this would enable the buttons, but only for that turnout. With a setup like that, all the turnouts in an industrial park could be locally operated, but the one connecting it to the main would be dispatcher controlled unless unlocked. Neat stuff like that. The other cool thing about Loconet is that when you operate the turnout with local buttons, that command is also fed back over the bus, so the JMRI panel can 'see' that happen without having to wire up extra contacts to indicate position.
For signals, the SE8C is a good deal. While all the examples show the signals in groups of 4 heads to protect a typical siding, all 32 signal outputs ARE independent, so you can use some intermediate signals or whatever fits your requirements. The RR-CirKits Tower Controller also has signal multiplexers available.
Other Loconet compatible devices are available from Team Digital and CML Electronics. Plus the Digitrax offerings.
JMRI can handle multiple computer connections, so if you want to have a dispatcher panel plus also use things like WiThrottle to use a smartphone as a throttle, you can have a Loconet interface AND an NCE interface running at the same time.
Here is a good site to look at - this guy is doing exactly what you propose - using NCE to drive the trains and Loconet for the signalling and detection: http://www.quaker-valley.com/index.htm
Hi guys,
After some answers from those that have set up a Digitrax Stand Alone Signalling system with and NCE Command & Throttle DCC system.
I'm looking at continuing to use my NCE DCC system for train control, but would like to use Digitrax for the signalling but have it stand alone using JMRI and a computer. I have done some reading off the Digitrax site as to what is required but have stopped at that because I need some further advice.
At this stage I will be placing Tortoise motors on the mainline turnouts to begin with, but will eventually be adding more to some sidings and branches, added to this I'd like to add signalling to protect the mainline turnouts (plants) and also have blocks in between. On top of the signalling (and if I have read the details correctly) I would also like to have local control of the individual turnouts via a fascia mounted control panel.
So my question is what do I need to begin with to get things started, I think I have an idea about the SEC8c and that I need the occupancy boards, but not sure? I'd like to be able to run from a JMRI created panel, but also like the idea of the local control from the fascia.
So basically I'd like a shopping list of the components to get things started, and some thoughts on those that have stand alone systems (not using Loconet but a computer with JMRI) on how is the best way of setting them up.
Thanks in advance,