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  • Member since
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NCE
Posted by PRR1955 on Thursday, December 13, 2012 5:14 PM

I have 2 issues going on at once.

The first is that sometimes when I power up my Power Pro 5 Amp system it does not go to the NORMAL DISPLAY' on the throttle. It stops and reads NCE PROCAB V1.3 CAB ADDRESS =02.

At least one it sent a BLI PRR J1 racing around the track in reverse when this happened. The engine has not worked after that experience.

The second is trying to program accessories. When the system comes up like that any of the switch machines I have programed stop working. I have sent a question into NCE but have no answer back.

Is anyone having the same issue? Has anyone experienced this with any other NCE system?

Thanks!

Jeff Hilton

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  • From: Eastern Shore Virginia
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Posted by gandydancer19 on Thursday, December 13, 2012 6:09 PM

There are a couple of things that you can try that have been problematic for some users.

First, with the power off and power plug removed from the command station, open the case. You will see an upper circuit board plugged into the bottom circuit board. Push down on the connector and make sure it is seated good.

Second, try plugging the throttle directly into the front of the command station. Sometimes the crimps on the flat cables are not crimped tightly, particularly if you are crimping them yourself. (Use only a metal type crimper as the plastic ones won't make a really good crimp.) If you still have the problem, try re-crimping both the connectors on the throttle cable or try another cable. If this fixes the problem, try re-crimping all of your cab bus cables. Also look closely inside the sockets of the throttle panels and make sure all of the little gold wires are sticking up. One may be stuck in the down or flat position.

Usually if there is something wrong with any part in the system it won't work correctly any time. Intermittent problems such as you described are usually caused by poor connections somewhere, the most common being what I have just told you.

Hope this helps.

Elmer.

The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.

(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.

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Posted by locoi1sa on Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:16 PM

Jeff.

 Elmer hit on the most common issues on the NCE system. As far as the J1, Try a hard reset of the decoder first. Then when reprogramming it disable DC in CV29. That should take care of the run away when powering up.

       Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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  • From: Northeast OH
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Posted by tstage on Thursday, December 13, 2012 8:31 PM

Jeff,

It's because it's a PRR J1.  Now if you had gotten the NYC J1 instead, this wouldn't be an issue. Clown

Tom

My web site: http://www.newyorkcentralmodeling.com

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by PRR1955 on Friday, December 14, 2012 5:59 AM

Thanks! I'll start trouble shooting this on the weekend. I'm using the cables that came with it but I'll keep what you said in mind once I move on to adding throtle locations.

Jeff

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Posted by PRR1955 on Friday, December 14, 2012 6:02 AM

It's a blue line engine that I put in an NCE Decoder in for the DCC control. Doesn't seem to have a hard set like the other ones. I'm looking for a better manual. Thanks!

Jeff

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  • From: Northeast OH
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Posted by tstage on Friday, December 14, 2012 6:35 AM

Jeff,

For the NCE decoder reset, did you try CV30 = 2 on your programming track?

Tom

My web site: http://www.newyorkcentralmodeling.com

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, December 14, 2012 6:48 AM

PRR1955

It's a blue line engine that I put in an NCE Decoder in for the DCC control. Doesn't seem to have a hard set like the other ones. I'm looking for a better manual. Thanks!

Jeff

Which NCE decoder?  All NCE deocders can be reset to factory default.

The Blueline series come with a factory installed sound decoder but require installation of a motor decoder.  That's where all of the problems arise, trying to get the two decoders to interact with each other.

When you say that you are looking for a better manual, for what purpose?  A better manual on Blueline locos or a better manual on NCE decoders?

Rich

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  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, December 14, 2012 6:50 AM

tstage

Jeff,

For the NCE decoder reset, did you try CV30 = 2 on your programming track?

Tom

Once you do that, you need to reprogram the long address.

Rich

  • Member since
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  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, December 14, 2012 6:53 AM

PRR1955

I have 2 issues going on at once.

The first is that sometimes when I power up my Power Pro 5 Amp system it does not go to the NORMAL DISPLAY' on the throttle. It stops and reads NCE PROCAB V1.3 CAB ADDRESS =02.

At least one it sent a BLI PRR J1 racing around the track in reverse when this happened. The engine has not worked after that experience.

The second is trying to program accessories. When the system comes up like that any of the switch machines I have programed stop working. I have sent a question into NCE but have no answer back.

Jeff, forget about emailing NCE.  Pick up the phone and call NCE.  Either Larry or someone else in Customer Service will answer the phone and will help you with this problem.

Rich

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Posted by PRR1955 on Friday, December 14, 2012 7:33 AM

Thanks Rich. I'll give that a try.

As to the Blue Line J1:

1. I put in an NCE N14IP  version 3.5 decoder recommended by BLI

2. It ran as expected once installed. No issues.

3. The Power Pro was powered up with the engine on the track (along with a BLI 2-8-2). The Power Pro did not go to the Normal display and both engines began running in reverse at high speed, I turned the system off. The 2-8-2 has a manual reset jumper which I used to get in running again. The J1 has not responded to all attempts to reprogram. I will try some of the suggestions here and see if it will come back to life.

4. I have an older Blue Manual. I have a volume 2 that I printed from the BLI website not sure if there is anything after that one..

I really like the change the DCC systrem has made in wiring. I remember helping my Grandfather under the layout we built back in the 60's. I still don't quite understand all the nuances yet. Thanks for all the great advice.

Jeff

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  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, December 14, 2012 8:02 AM

Jeff,

The NCE N14IP is the decoder that I have in both of my Blueline locos.

I would contact NCE first about the issues that you mentioned.  Something is not right there.  Is the system new?  Had it worked fine in the past?  Call NCE this morning if you have the time so you can address the rest of the problem over the weekend.

Once you get the Power Pro system working right, then we need to help you with the decoder issue.

Keep us posted.

Rich

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  • From: Shawnee Hill Country, IL
  • 118 posts
Posted by ShawneeHawk on Saturday, December 15, 2012 10:38 AM

richhotrain

PRR1955

I have 2 issues going on at once.

The first is that sometimes when I power up my Power Pro 5 Amp system it does not go to the NORMAL DISPLAY' on the throttle. It stops and reads NCE PROCAB V1.3 CAB ADDRESS =02.

At least one it sent a BLI PRR J1 racing around the track in reverse when this happened. The engine has not worked after that experience.

The second is trying to program accessories. When the system comes up like that any of the switch machines I have programed stop working. I have sent a question into NCE but have no answer back.

Jeff, forget about emailing NCE.  Pick up the phone and call NCE.  Either Larry or someone else in Customer Service will answer the phone and will help you with this problem.

Rich

Ditto on calling Larry at NCE.  He has been kind enough to walk me through a couple of problems with decoders and my PowerPro system.

Gary

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Posted by PRR1955 on Sunday, December 16, 2012 5:34 AM

Thanks for all the great advice.

I tried all the troubleshooting and still had the same issue. It took a while but I did reach Larry at NCE. WOW! Old fashioned customer service with some one who cares about you and their product. Great! He walked me through resetting the Power Pro back to factory standard on Friday. I was able to spend a few hours working on some track issues during which I turned the system off on and off numerous  times without any issues.

I did some "simple" programming on the main to change the address of some new locomotives. All seems great. I will be attempting to program some Switch Machines and Psx AR's today. If there are no issues I will put the Blue Line J1 on the programming track and see what can be done to get it going again.

There seems to be a conflict between how to reset the 2 decoders. The NCE says on the programming track and the Blue line manual says on the Main. I assume that is because the sound decoder needs more power than it will get from the programming track. I plan to work on the programming track first.

Again thank you all for all the great idea's and advice!

Jeff

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, December 16, 2012 5:45 AM

Jeff, that is good news. 

Now that you have the DCC system working properly again, you can turn your attention to that balky BLI Blueline loco.  Typically, you don't need to do anything to the factory installed sound decoder.  The problem is usually limited to the motor decoder.

Using my NCE Pro Cab, I Programmed on the Main in the Ops Mode.  With that Blueline dual decoder setup, I think that you will have more success of the main layout than on the programming track.  Make sure that any locos sitting on your layout are programmed to long addresses so you don't wind up with any short address locos before you attempt to re-program the Blueline loco.

Let's us know what kind of problems you may be encountering and we can help you sort it out.

Rich

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Posted by PRR1955 on Friday, January 04, 2013 6:18 AM

Happy New Year all!

Just wanted to update progress. The Power pro is working much better after a system reset that Larry recommended.

The Blue Line J1 is a pain. I have been able to get sound from the original sound decoder (but not lights) after a reset on the programming track. It did not respond when on the main in Ops mode. The engine does not move after the reset (as#3) even though the sound is working. Once I attempt to program in ops mode (as I have with all other engines I own) the sound shuts off and the engine still sits there.

After the reset I can find the NCE decoder but nothing seems to work.

Can it just be that the NCE decoder was fried after the backwards run when the Power pro did not start correctly?

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Posted by tstage on Friday, January 04, 2013 6:49 AM

PRR,

I doubt it.  However, you might want to try a different decoder anyhow.  If you want good slo-o-o-o-o-o-ow, realistic starts and stops from your J1, I would highly recommend the Lenz Silver MP decoder.  It's a little more pricy but my Blueline Niagara really crawls with it - i.e. ~0.5 sMPH.  Well worth the extra expense in my book.

Tom

My web site: http://www.newyorkcentralmodeling.com

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, January 04, 2013 7:09 AM

PRR1955,

Good to hear from you again.

Over the past few days, another forum member with the same DCC command station as you and me had a similar problem with a BLI Paragon 2 steamer taking off in reverse at high speed after a derailment.

I am not sure if the problem is a BLI incompatibility with the NCE PH-Pro or if the problem is simply a BLI decoder quirk.

In any event, my first suggestion is to call BLI Customer Service.  You may be on hold for 5 or 10 minutes, but it will be worth the wait. The two guys who man the Cistomer Service phones are extremely knowledgeable and can usually walk you through the problem without sending in the loco for repair which usually takes about 8 weeks.

If you want to further investigate the problem yourself, the first thing to do is to acquire a decoder tester such as the NCE DTK.  If you had one at hand, it could easily tell you if the motor decoder is fried or not.

But here is the deal with the Blueline series.  There are, as you know, two decoders - - - a factory installed sound decoder and an after-market motor decoder.  You never want the LOCK feature to be on.  Everything is simpler to program with the LOCK feature off.

Next, you need to reset the motor decoder.  In spite of what you read to the contrary, the most effective way to program the motor decoder on a Blueline using the PH-Pro throttle is to Program on the Main in the Ops Mode.  First, reset the decoder to factory default - CV30=2.  The loco should lurch forward.  Then, you should be able to activate the short address (003).  That should get the sound going and the headlights working.  Next, you should be able to reprogram the long address and everything should be back to normal.  If not, then you definitely  need to call BLI.

One other thing to check after the reset to factory default.  As Pete pointed out earlier in this thread, make sure to look at the value of CV29.  It should have DC disabled for reliable performance.

Let us know what happens with this loco and its balky decoder.  Here's hoping that it is not fried.

Rich

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Posted by PRR1955 on Friday, January 04, 2013 8:01 AM

Thanks for your further thoughts on this issue. I have a number of BLI Locomotives and none have had the issues of the Blueline/NCE decoder combo.

When the Power Pro failed to come up their sound kicks in but the engines never moved. Interesting to note that when I try to program this engine on the main (after the Power Pro reset) the Power Pro will often fail to come up the next time it is turned on after shutdown..

Anyway the good thing is I know a lot more about programing engines then I did a few weeks ago. I have tried everything in both of the manuals (Blueline and NCE) and the suggestions. I have changed the CV's. The programming lock is not on, the engine is not in DC mode, reset both decoders. The bad thing is that the engine does not respond to anything that it should on the main. Once I try to program the long address I lose the sound that returns after the Sound decoder reset.

I will call BLI this afternoon when I have the system on and the engine sitting there and hopefully they can tell me what is going on. If not I'll try NCE and talk with them about the decoder.

If it is fried I will try Lenz silver direct.

Again Thanks!

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Posted by tstage on Friday, January 04, 2013 8:11 AM

PRR1955

The bad thing is that the engine does not respond to anything that it should on the main. Once I try to program the long address I lose the sound that returns after the Sound decoder reset.

That sure sounds like an issue with the NCE decoder to me, PRR.  According to the Blueline manual: If the sound cuts out when you are programming the two decoders together, then they aren't programmed properly.  And, if I remember correctly, the N14IP decoder is on BLI's "recommended" decoder list for their Blueline locomotives.

Do keep us posted in regards to your conversations with BLI and NCE.

Tom

My web site: http://www.newyorkcentralmodeling.com

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by cacole on Friday, January 04, 2013 9:17 AM

My experience with Blue Line has been, the motor control decoder must be removed in order to program it, or your programming will cause the Blue Line sound to be lost.  Program the Blue Line sound without a motor control decoder installed, and program the motor control decoder before putting it into the loco.

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Posted by tstage on Friday, January 04, 2013 9:57 AM

Thankfully, I've never had that problem, Chuck.  Programming the two together with my Power Cab has worked every time I've tried it.

Tom

My web site: http://www.newyorkcentralmodeling.com

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by locoi1sa on Friday, January 04, 2013 10:21 AM

There was a video on programming Blueline locos on the BLI web site some time ago. I have 5 of them and also program them together with my Power Cab. All of mine have TCS T1 decoders. I also did the wire harness change to make the motor decoder work the lights for better lighting. Since the PH system does not have the extra power on the program track I would try to program on the main first.

   Before going this route I would seriously take another hard look at the harness plug to the loco from the tender. This has been known as a week link in the Blueline locos. My J1b plug socket was filled with molding flash that had to be scraped out using a small drill bit in a pin vise. My M1b also has a tendency of loosening after about 10 hours of running. My PCM I1sa needed a new harness right out of the box because the factory tightened the wire tie to the large capacitor so tight it cut the wires. Without checking these things first no amount of programming will fix it.

        Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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