Hi: So, the bulbs are rated at 35ma, AT WHAT VOLTAGE??? 6, 12, 16 If they are old, the they could be anything. How much voltage is your power pack putting out? More voltage than the rated voltage will make them draw more current, and overload your PP. and trip the breaker or burn out the bulb/bulbs.
Sam
If the bulbs are 35ma max, 5 of them in parallel is 175ma. .175 amp. Less than 1/4 of an amp. The Tech II 1400 is most definitely NOT insufficient to power that, assuming it's not defective. But neither are any old cheap train set power packs, say like the Tyco ones in the brass case with the lever and switch on the front from the 70's. Any of those can easily supply 1/4 amp to accessories.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Once again, Thanks for all of the input and information.
The engineering department, where I work, measured the bulbs to be between 30 and 35 miliamps.
My understading is now that my transformer is insufficent to push the current needed. Using Ohm's law, the size of the transform should be able to be calauclated.
Happy Holidays
Steve
Using a multimeter for stuff different from model railroading.
http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/workshop/techtip/Multimeter.html?sp_rid=MzEyMjY2MjcyMDAS1&sp_mid=4268910
For those not aware of it yet, when you see a link in a forum, store it in the browser, Chrome, IE or Firefox for future use. Then read the article.
This can make the hobby much easier to work with and help others.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Here is another suggestion using the ten amp meters. Measure volts and amps.
http://www.trainelectronics.com/Meter_HF/index.htm
Here is a link to using a cheap meter. This one has the ten DC amp scale.
http://www.trainelectronics.com/Meter_Workshop/index.htm
Most digital meters have a 20 amp scale. A few have a 10 amp scale. There is a fuse to protect the amp scale. More expensive meters might have two fuses. Some forget and try to read volts using the amps scale.
I have both types of meters.
Comparing a DC to AC reading will not always works as some AC sources will drop quite a lot depending on the secondary rating and the load applied to the transformer. I know that from experience.
Speaking of checking the specs .... be sure the amp rating is somewhere between 5 and 10 amps. A lot of cheaper meters will only measure up to small levels of milli-amps.
Even if it only measures in DC amps, you can still use the DC terminals on your power pack (set to the same voltage as the AC terminals - again, using the meter) to check the bulb's current draw.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
If you are going to get a cheap meter, many do not have an AC Amps scale. Only DC Amps. The ones from Harbor Freight are like that which is not a problem for me as I do not use low voltage AC for anything. They probably have a more expensive one with AC Amps.
You can find digital meters at Home Depot and Lowe's. The older analog meter movements are subject to damage if dropped or roughly handled. Digital meters are more durable. I know this from experience of many years of meter use.
Check the specs first.
If one bulb burns brightly and the others burn dim, the bulbs are not all rated the same, and that may be part of your problem. One may be a 12 volt bulb and the rest 16 volts.
Mark R. You should really invest in a small meter - they can be had for less than $20 and can be really useful in cases like this where you really don't know what you are dealing with. You can then measure the current draw of each house on its own and then KNOW what kind of total current you will need to run all of them together. As it stands, the best we can do for you is guess. Mark.
You should really invest in a small meter - they can be had for less than $20 and can be really useful in cases like this where you really don't know what you are dealing with. You can then measure the current draw of each house on its own and then KNOW what kind of total current you will need to run all of them together. As it stands, the best we can do for you is guess.
That's the best suggestion by far. A small meter will greatly simplify most every wiring mystery.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Ya you should have two wires going from the powerpack to the layout, then two wires from a that wire going separately to each of the five buildings. I'd try lighting each one one at a time and see what happens. It may be there is one building with a short or some problem that's overloading the powerpack (perhaps only when other buildings are lit too.)
Yes, terminology is very important when describing a problem. Even the term "daisy-chaining" is indicative of items being wired in series.
So it sounds as though they ARE wired in parallel. That being said, I revert back to my original statement in that the current draw total is more than your power supply can handle. The reason the second house is probably dimmer is due to the fact the current rating for that bulb is much higher than the one in the first house.
You say these models date back from the 60's-70's, bulbs used back then weren't nearly as efficient as bulbs today and were quite often just scavenged from whatever source was available that just happened to be 12 volts.
Sorry, my terminology is not the best, I am an accountant, not an electrician and I think I reversed my series with my parallel. Currently, I have the the power leads of a few houses connected to the power lead from my power pack. The return leads fro the houses are connected to a buss returning to the power pack. When I dasey chained the houses together, the first house lit brightly and the second was very dim.
There's the problem ! - You wired them in SERIES.
The bulbs (your houses) should be wired in parallel. One wire from your power supply goes to one wire of all the houses. The other wire from your power supply goes to the other wire of all your houses.
Good afternoon,
First, thanks for all of the information and helpful insights.
The type of bulbes used in the structures are very small, the pre LED type that give off a warm yellow glow. They were wired into the structures with very thin wires and are well away from the structure walls and ceilings. The structures and wires were obiously build by someone who knew what he was doing, at leaste more so than myself. I was told that they came of the layout when it was taken down because the older gentleman was moved to a nursing home. All is HO scale. Therefore, I suppect the maybe 1960-1970 vintage.
These are on is a 4x8 layout so my buss runs are 3 feet at the most. When I wired some of the lights in series, the first burned brightly, and the second was very dim. Also, my trains run on a seperate Digitrax DCC system. I bought the Type II 1400 used so it probably has degraded a bit
I am aware of the fire problem and so is my wife, who has inferred that she would be quite upset if I burned down the house.
Plain and simple - the bulbs are drawing too much current when he's trying to light them all at the same time. He already stated he can run two of the five houses with no problem.
What we don't know is what kind of bulbs they are. They could even be automotive tail-light bulbs (which can draw over 1 amp each) for all we know .... don't laugh - I've seen them used before !!!
Two suggestions .... either get rid of the high current draw bulbs and replace them with low current model railroad bulbs, OR - go on Ebay and get yourself a 12v laptop power supply rated for around 6 to 8 amps for about $10. That's what I prefer for running accessories - clean power / dirt cheap.
HudsonRRTo clarify my earlier response, I have lite the house wired to my Tech II and to a few older Tycro type power packs. The Tech II does much better and runs much longer than the cheaper model.
Are you saying the same thing happens with several different power packs? If I understand this, both the Tech II and Tycos shut down, with the Tech II taking longer to trip.
If this is the case, the odds are against several packs having the same internal problem.
You have an overload condition which needs to be corrected. Check the bottom of the light sockets for a partial short. Make sure the wires are not touching each other where they are soldered to the sockets. Also check for excessive solder. Unscrew the bulbs and look in side. Trace the wires back to your buss. Check for hot areas on the wiring before the breaker opens on the pack. If the bus run is long, try running a new buss with 14 or 16 ga instead of the 18 ga.
You need to sort this out. Layouts are full of combustibles.
Jim
I'm with Randy on this one.
It is possible the power pack has degraded. Those old units used some pretty cheap components like paste based capacitors which have a tendency to deform and dry out over time.
Even my super high grade 850 Watt Gold rated power supply ($350) on my computer has a rated power capacity that degrades with time because of capacitor degredation.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
If you're using small wires and running wires from each building separately over a long distance to the powerpack, it may be you're getting resistance from the wires too. You might try using a powerbus of heavier wire between the powerpack and the area where the buildings are, then run short separate leads to each building. I had that problem on a previous layout, trying to set up a series of 12v bulbs along the ceiling to provide a little "starlight / moonlight" glow for nighttime running. Even with an old MRC powerpack designed for O and G layouts, I could only run about six bulbs before tripping the circuit breaker because of the long fairly small wiring. On my new layout I currently have about 15 different lights on the layout, all controlled by an MRC Tech IV with no trouble.
Tried another power pack? 5 lights, even if they were some crazy 100ma bulbs, which is way in excess what any sort of hobby bulb should be, is only a total of 500ma, or half an amp. Even the cheapest Tech II when they were made could handle more than a half amp. Something else may be mis-wired here, or the Tech II is possible defective. Is it running anythign else except these 5 lights?
Tripping the breakers are an indication of an overload. You have too many of these lights, or to put it another way, these lights draw too much current.
I use Miniatronics bulbs for most of my structure lighting. They draw only 30 milliamps each. I'd imagine yours are drawing a lot more than that. A lot of that extra power ends up as heat, and I'd imagine you can feel that the buildings get warm when you run the lights for a while. This is also bad, as a hot bulb can melt plastic or even set fire to a cardboard one.
I would replace the bulbs and be done with them.
To clarify my earlier response, I have lite the house wired to my Tech II and to a few older Tycro type power packs. The Tech II does much better and runs much longer than the cheaper model. I am powering my trains with a Digitrax DCC system, so the powerpacks are just for lights. Also, the lights do not have resitors, capicators or reostats wired in.
The lights do not burn out, the circuirt breakers in the transformers trip. When the transformers cool down abit, the lights come back on. What type of power pack and/or wiring is required. Currently, the lights are wired with 22 gage wire connected to an 18 gage buss.
5 lighted buildings is not going to overload a Tech II, any of the series. Instead, the voltage was probbaly too high and the lights burned out.
At least with a more advanced power pack like a Tech II (or any transistorized apck), one thing to try with unknowns like this is to hook one to the DC track terminals, WITH THE THROTTLE AT STOP. Slowly increase the throttle to see when the lights blow. If they light up nicely well short of 3/4 throttle - do NOT connect them to the accessory terminals as-is, the bulbs are of a voltage too low to stand the full AC output for long. If you end up cranking the throttle wide open and the lights are still dim, they're good to go directly on the AC output.
And before any of that, test with a single known good flashlight battery - this is enought o fully light 1.5V bulbs, and dim glow 3V bulbs. If either of these conditions are true - do NOT hook the light up to the AC output, unless you are trying to model a photographer taking a flash picture. If it does not even dimly glow on a single battery, you can try the test with the throttle and gradually increase the voltage to get an idea of what the bulb is meant for.
I have the cheaper Tyro. I am at work, but I think it is a Tech II
Hudson,
What transformer do you have? Is it a cheap Tyco or an MRC-type?
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I recently came into possession of several older building that were wired for lights, the older yellowish incondesent type, I think. I wired 5 of the building up on my layout, to the accessory side of my trasformer, and with in 45 minutes, all the light went dark. Now I am not much of an electrician, but I do know that this is not a good sign. I do not know the amperage of the house lights or the much about the wattage needed to safely use these lights. However I found that I can run the lights for two houses on a transforr for several hours. Any suggestions on the correct wiring or sources of information for these older lights?