Duncan at Tam Valley would be the ultimate authority, since he designed them, but I'm thinking that if your turnouts were the type where the frog is isolated from the closure rails, say an Atlas Cutsom Line, or a turnout made per the fast Track instructions with the rails cut where indicated, there would be no issue with more than 4 quads or monos , because unless you leave locos parked actually on the frog, there's none of them that would have to attempt a phase reverse right at power up
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
So, can anyone speculate if you can have no more than 4 Hex Juicers on a layout? Each hex juicer would startup fine, but wouldn't four Hex Juicers be the same as 4 mono juicers? I'm running 2 Hex Juicers on a 2'x12' switching layout (NCE 5 amp system, not the power cab), and Digitrax when set up in a FREEMO layout, just fine.
If you needed more than four mono's, could you wire a on/off switch to each Juicer and turn them on one by one...kind of like a manual startup sequence (turn on layout power like normal, if there is a problem, turn off the Juicers and turn them on one by one so the DCC system can correct any polarity differences one at a time. Could the on/off switch be a simple switch to one of the buss wires just before it goes into the Juicer? Or does it have to be a more sophisticated switch than that (I'm not real sure about complex electronics/dcc signals)?
I'm designing a junction/yard module set that might take more than 4 Hex Juicers...never thought about being limited to the number of Juicers; I'm glad You read the instructions! lol
http://delray1967.shutterfly.com/pictures/5
SEMI Free-Mo@groups.io
Thanks guy's, I was pretty sure I would be okay, I just needed some confirmation from those much more knowledgeable than I. Now I just have to wait for the Mailman.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
BATMAN Here is the page where I read about the 4 Juicers per booster with the mono juicer. http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/support/whichfrogjuicer.html
Here is the page where I read about the 4 Juicers per booster with the mono juicer.
http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/support/whichfrogjuicer.html
And come to think of it, my buddy that has 10 on one booster has four mono juicers plus a hex, so he didn't exceed the theoretical limit.
Rob Spangler
Therefore the limit would not apply to turnouts with isolated frogs, since they won;t be at the 'wrong polarity' unless there is a loco sitting right on them at power up. Makes sense for the limit where the frog is powered both by the juicer and by which stock rail the points contact.
tomikawaTT admittedly , but every time I see. "Frog Juicer," I picture somebody squashing a fat bullfrog over an old-fashioned fluted dome orange juicer...
admittedly , but every time I see. "Frog Juicer," I picture somebody squashing a fat bullfrog over an old-fashioned fluted dome orange juicer...
Shame on you, Chuck !
Here is the inventor's admonishment,copied directly from the Tam Valley website, to you and others of your ilk.
After I created the name frog juicer I got some people who thought they should call PETA on me for abusing frogs. I can only say I was shocked by the image the two words created in these warped minds! Anyone who knows me at all knows I could never hurt any organism more complex than a fly.
Alton Junction
BATMAN Here is the page where I read about the 4 Juicers per booster with the mono juicer. http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/support/whichfrogjuicer.html Brent
The reason for the limit of 4 mono juicers is explained in the last paragraph of the page you linked:
"Hex frog juicers have a special startup sequence that sequences each turnout on one at a time and checks for a short and thus starts each turnout in the correct polarity. The mono and dual cannot do this and this limits the number of electrofrogs you can connect to a command station through the frog juicers. Otherwise you can get a situation where too many turnouts are in the wrong polarity for the booster to start the layout without immediately shutting down."
TONY
"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)
BATMAN I have an NCE Power Pro system that has a 5 amp booster and Walthers DCC friendly turnouts.How many frog juicers can I run with my system? I noticed it say's "4 mono juicers per 5 amp booster".
I have an NCE Power Pro system that has a 5 amp booster and Walthers DCC friendly turnouts.How many frog juicers can I run with my system? I noticed it say's "4 mono juicers per 5 amp booster".
I'm not sure four is the practical limit for a 5 amp booster despite the claim. One of my buddies has around 10 on a single 5-amp NCE booster with no apparent ill effects.
Does this apply to the Walthers DCC friendly T/Os or just electrofrog T/Os.
Both. It's supposedly intended for DCC-friendly turnouts with dead frogs (e.g. Walthers), but can be employed on live frog turnouts as a means to power the whole point/closure rail/frog assembly with a single feeder. I've installed them successfully for both.
It really wan't made for such a simple task - although if you use the servos you have no contacts, unless you add on the relays, the hex frog juicer comes in at less than 6 relays though.
What it was originally designed for - take a look at Tim Warris's CNJ Bronx Terminal layout and some of those complex overlapping turnouts. I for one wouldn't want to try and figure out all the switch machine contact combinations for each possible polarity of those frogs and diamonds.Had enough trouble on the double slip plus extra set of points combo thing a friend of mine made up for his N scale layout - handlaid with code 40 to fine scale standards to boot. A frog juicer connection to each frog and it would have just worked, but they weren;t out yet when we worked on that.
Funny. I get the same result using an SPST contact set on whatever moves the points.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with hot frogs)
Not sure why there would even be a limit, at least a low one. The Frog Juicer will draw alittle power, but not that much, to run the electronics. The Mono juicer is a little more capable, but for just powering the frogs, the Hex Juicer would work. Generally more economical as well.
The type of turnout has nothing to do with it, the functionality is exactly the same: set the frog polairty to match the set route when the gap between the frog and other rails in bridged.
I have an NCE Power Pro system that has a 5 amp booster and Walthers DCC friendly turnouts. I noticed Tam Valley has frog juicers on sale. How many frog juicers can I run with my system? I noticed it say's "4 mono juicers per 5 amp booster". Does this apply to the Walthers DCC friendly T/Os or just electrofrog T/Os. I only need to power six of about forty T/Os so my little 4-4-0 can traverse them uninterrupted.
I am dazed and confused.
Thanks.