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Frog Juicer ?

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  • Member since
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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Friday, December 7, 2012 4:25 PM

 Duncan at Tam Valley would be the ultimate authority, since he designed them, but I'm thinking that if your turnouts were the type where the frog is isolated from the closure rails, say an Atlas Cutsom Line, or a turnout made per the fast Track instructions with the rails cut where indicated, there would be no issue with more than 4 quads or monos , because unless you leave locos parked actually on the frog, there's none of them that would have to attempt a phase reverse right at power up

 

       --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by delray1967 on Friday, December 7, 2012 12:36 PM

So, can anyone speculate if you can have no more than 4 Hex Juicers on a layout?  Each hex juicer would startup fine, but wouldn't four Hex Juicers be the same as 4 mono juicers?   I'm running 2 Hex Juicers on a 2'x12' switching layout (NCE 5 amp system, not the power cab), and Digitrax when set up in a FREEMO layout, just fine.

If you needed more than four mono's, could you wire a on/off switch to each Juicer and turn them on one by one...kind of like a manual startup sequence (turn on layout power like normal, if there is a problem, turn off the Juicers and turn them on one by one so the DCC system can correct any polarity differences one at a time.  Could the on/off switch be a simple switch to one of the buss wires just before it goes into the Juicer? Or does it have to be a more sophisticated switch than that (I'm not real sure about complex electronics/dcc signals)?

I'm designing a junction/yard module set that might take more than 4 Hex Juicers...never thought about being limited to the number of Juicers; I'm glad You read the instructions! lol

http://delray1967.shutterfly.com/pictures/5

SEMI Free-Mo@groups.io

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Posted by BATMAN on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 1:09 PM

Thanks guy's, I was pretty sure I would be okay, I just needed some confirmation from those much more knowledgeable than I. Now I just have to wait for the Mailman.Laugh

BrentCowboy

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

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Posted by wp8thsub on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 9:48 AM

BATMAN

Here is the page where I read about the 4 Juicers per booster with the mono juicer.

http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/support/whichfrogjuicer.html

And come to think of it, my buddy that has 10 on one booster has four mono juicers plus a hex, so he didn't exceed the theoretical limit.

Rob Spangler

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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 6:46 AM

 Therefore the limit would not apply to turnouts with isolated frogs, since they won;t be at the 'wrong polarity' unless there is a loco sitting right on them at power up. Makes sense for the limit where the frog is powered both by the juicer and by which stock rail the points contact.

           --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 5:14 AM

tomikawaTT

admittedly Off Topic, but every time I see. "Frog Juicer," I picture somebody squashing a fat bullfrog over an old-fashioned fluted dome orange juicer...Embarrassed

 

Shame on you, Chuck !

Here is the inventor's admonishment,copied directly from the Tam Valley website, to you and others of your ilk.  Laugh

After I created the name frog juicer I got some people who thought they should call PETA on me for abusing frogs. I can only say I was shocked by the image the two words created in these warped minds!  Anyone who knows me at all knows I could never hurt any organism more complex than a fly. 

Alton Junction

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Posted by jasperofzeal on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 3:18 AM

BATMAN

Here is the page where I read about the 4 Juicers per booster with the mono juicer.

http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/support/whichfrogjuicer.html

BrentCowboy

The reason for the limit of 4 mono juicers is explained in the last paragraph of the page you linked:

"Hex frog juicers have a special startup sequence that sequences each turnout on one at a time and checks for a short and thus starts each turnout in the correct polarity.  The mono and dual cannot do this and this limits the number of electrofrogs you can connect to a command station through the frog juicers.  Otherwise you can get a situation where too many turnouts are in the wrong polarity for the booster to start the layout without immediately shutting down."

TONY

"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)

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Posted by BATMAN on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 12:38 AM

Here is the page where I read about the 4 Juicers per booster with the mono juicer.

http://www.tamvalleydepot.com/support/whichfrogjuicer.html

BrentCowboy

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

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Posted by wp8thsub on Monday, November 26, 2012 11:47 PM

BATMAN

I have an NCE Power Pro system that has a 5 amp booster and Walthers DCC friendly turnouts.How many frog juicers can I run with my system? I noticed it say's "4 mono juicers per 5 amp booster". 

I'm not sure four is the practical limit for a 5 amp booster despite the claim.  One of my buddies has around 10 on a single 5-amp NCE booster with no apparent ill effects.

Does this apply to the Walthers DCC friendly T/Os or just electrofrog T/Os.

Both.  It's supposedly intended for DCC-friendly turnouts with dead frogs (e.g. Walthers), but can be employed on live frog turnouts as a means to power the whole point/closure rail/frog assembly with a single feeder.  I've installed them successfully for both.

Rob Spangler

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, November 26, 2012 10:48 PM

 It really wan't made for such a simple task - although if you use the servos you have no contacts, unless you add on the relays, the hex frog juicer comes in at less than 6 relays though.

 What it was originally designed for - take a look at Tim Warris's CNJ Bronx Terminal layout and some of those complex overlapping turnouts. I for one wouldn't want to try and figure out all the switch machine contact combinations for each possible polarity of those frogs and diamonds.Had enough trouble on the double slip plus extra set of points combo thing a friend of mine made up for his N scale layout - handlaid with code 40 to fine scale standards to boot. A frog juicer connection to each frog and it would have just worked, but they weren;t out yet when we worked on that.

               --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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    February 2005
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Posted by tomikawaTT on Monday, November 26, 2012 10:24 PM

admittedly Off Topic, but every time I see. "Frog Juicer," I picture somebody squashing a fat bullfrog over an old-fashioned fluted dome orange juicer...Embarrassed

Funny.  I get the same result using an SPST contact set on whatever moves the points.Cool

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with hot frogs)

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, November 26, 2012 9:11 PM

 Not sure why there would even be a limit, at least a low one. The Frog Juicer will draw alittle power, but not that much, to run the electronics. The Mono juicer is a little more capable, but for just powering the frogs, the Hex Juicer would work. Generally more economical as well.

 The type of turnout has nothing to do with it, the functionality is exactly the same: set the frog polairty to match the set route when the gap between the frog and other rails in bridged.

             --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: 4610 Metre's North of the Fortyninth on the left coast of Canada
  • 9,352 posts
Frog Juicer ?
Posted by BATMAN on Monday, November 26, 2012 7:52 PM

I have an NCE Power Pro system that has a 5 amp booster and Walthers DCC friendly turnouts. I noticed Tam Valley has frog juicers on sale. How many frog juicers can I run with my system? I noticed it say's "4 mono juicers per 5 amp booster".  Does this apply to the Walthers DCC friendly T/Os or just electrofrog T/Os. I only need to power six of about forty T/Os so my little 4-4-0 can traverse them uninterrupted.

I am dazed and confused.

Thanks.

BrentCowboy

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

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