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Programming a Loksound V4 on MRC Prodigy Advance 2

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Programming a Loksound V4 on MRC Prodigy Advance 2
Posted by NSDash09 on Friday, November 23, 2012 12:49 PM

I recently finished superdetailing my Dash 9 and I was trying to program the ditch lights on the  V4 with the program track side of my MRC Prodigy Advance Squared. I couldn't get it to wookr and when i tried reading      back the CVs I discovered that none of the lighting functions would program on the programming track. Am I missing something basic or do I need to drop 150 for a Lokprogrammer (with Black friday etc. now might not be a bad time except I am sort on cash). I have programmed sounds for my Loksound Select on the main and I can program the address on the V4, just none of the lighting changes. After programming a CV is still reads back to the original value - no change. Thanks in advance.

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Posted by locoi1sa on Friday, November 23, 2012 1:07 PM

Have you tried programming on the main? Program track might not have the power to change CVs in the sound decoder. POM should work just fine.

        Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, November 23, 2012 2:33 PM

 You only need the Lokprogrammer if you want to load a different sound set on the decoder. Everything else is set via CVs.

          --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by NSDash09 on Friday, November 23, 2012 3:40 PM

I've tried programming on the main and the program track. Currently I am trying to reprogram AUX 2 to F7. Following directions from tonys trains I try writing 183 value 8, 184 value 0 186 value 8 187 value 0. Whenever I read back the CV's though, all of them are 0. I programmed the address ok and it responds to that. I have also tried resetting the decoder but that hasn't helped either. Maybe there is a decoder lock CV somewhere although I didn't lock anything. I called ESu twice today although I imagine they took the day off.

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Posted by locoi1sa on Friday, November 23, 2012 4:19 PM

-9

 You can download the manual here.

http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/digital-decoders/

 I am not sure about the version 4 decoders but there may be some indexed CVs that have to be changed in order to change other CVs.

 ESU has their own forum system that they monitor and answer questions on. There is also the Loksound ESU yahoo group that has very knowledgeable people on.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/loksound/?yguid=270163699

  I am sure there is someone who can walk you through the programing.

         Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, November 23, 2012 4:29 PM

Can you read the values of other CVs, like 29?

Does the PA even program CVs higher than 127? This could be the problem. There are alternate methods to get tot he higher CV numbers on the Loksound V4 but it doesn;t appear these are in the Select yet, at least not mentioned in the latest version manual.

            --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by maxman on Friday, November 23, 2012 8:09 PM

NSDash09

I've tried programming on the main and the program track. Currently I am trying to reprogram AUX 2 to F7. Following directions from tonys trains I try writing 183 value 8, 184 value 0 186 value 8 187 value 0. Whenever I read back the CV's though, all of them are 0. I programmed the address ok and it responds to that. I have also tried resetting the decoder but that hasn't helped either. Maybe there is a decoder lock CV somewhere although I didn't lock anything. I called ESu twice today although I imagine they took the day off.

 
The first question I think needs to be asked is exactly which Loksound decoder those Tony's instructions apply to.  I think I found the instructions you mentioned and they do talk about CVs 183, 184 186, and 187.  But I looked at several of the Loksound decoder manuals and the only one that shows those CVs as having anything to do with changing key F7 is for the LokPilot V3.  There's a chart on page 64 of the LokPilot manual which you can download from http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/digital-decoders/ if you want to take a look.
 
If you have a Loksound V4, then I think you need to look at the mapping information shown in the Loksound V4 manual (found at the same link) starting around page 51 or so.  If that's really where you need to look, good luck because I stared at the information on how to do it for about a half hour and still don't have a clue.  The only thing I will say is that it appears that the re-mapping CVs for the V4 appear to be different than those you mentioned.
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Posted by rrinker on Friday, November 23, 2012 9:28 PM

 For a Loksound Select to make F7 control the AUX2 physical output, it's CV32 =2 and then CV394 to 8

         --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by maxman on Friday, November 23, 2012 11:25 PM

rrinker

 For a Loksound Select to make F7 control the AUX2 physical output, it's CV32 =2 and then CV394 to 8

         --Randy

 

 
I thought he said he had a V4.  Is the information the same for that?
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Posted by rrinker on Friday, November 23, 2012 11:37 PM

V4's different, I'm mixed up between this thread and the other one on programming a select.

To do the V4 you will almost certainly have to follow the instructions they give for programming witht he Digitrax Zephyr, as I doubt the MRC can select CVs above 255 either. It may not be able to do a CV above 127 .There is a special way to access the higher CVs via indexed CVs. For those systems that can select a CV number higher than 255, they can program the required CV directly, but ESU has a back door of sorts for other systems to be able to get to them. One if for systems that can go up to 255 but no higher, the other is for systems that can only go up to 127.

            --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by NSDash09 on Saturday, November 24, 2012 11:01 AM

I may have been wrong with the Tonys Trains CV's although it does say Loksound and list the correct function assignments for the V4. My loksound select has 20 some f functions, not 11 like the Tonys trains and the V4. I will try and look at the manual again but it concerns me that I wrote values to the CV's and the locomotive made a sound like it was starting to jerk forward like most decoders do when they recieve information but when i read back there is no change. Even if i had the wrong CV's there should still be a change. I haven't found the V4 manual to be near as helpful as the Select manual... last I saw there was only a British English Version and all 5 or so variants of the  V4 were listed.

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Posted by NSDash09 on Saturday, November 24, 2012 11:02 AM

If anyone's interested... these are the directions I was following.

http://www.tonystrains.com/download/lksnd-chtsht.pdf

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, November 24, 2012 11:17 AM

 The manual for Loksound V4 can be downlaoded here: http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/digital-decoders/

Or if you can read German you can swith to the German version of the site and get the German language version - I understand enough to muddle throught he basics but not enough to read all the details.

I believe someone posted a step by step how to use the CV offsets in the Loksound group on Yahoo. Free to join and lots of info. Go to Groups on Yahoo and search for Loksound.

             --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by locoi1sa on Saturday, November 24, 2012 11:49 AM

It does not specify what version Loksound these instruction are for! The version 4 is a very unique decoder and the real instructions are free on the ESU web site that I and others have already given. While Tony's is a leader in DCC sales and service they did not make the decoder you have. The manufacture has more information that you need.

         Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by Mark R. on Saturday, November 24, 2012 12:21 PM

After reading and re-reading the opening post, I'm wondering ....

You say you can't program it on the programming track, but it appears as though you can program it on the main - but you say it reads back 0. (?)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only way you can read back CV's is on the programming track - you can't read back CV's when on the main (I never program on the main, I just recall reading that).

Loksound 4.0 decoders draw considerably more current than the Selects when programming. I've recorded a current draw of just over 1 amp draw during the programming process of a 4.0 decoder. This is one of the reasons people were having issues with the ESU programmer and its supplied 500ma power supply .... but that's another topic.

With your set-up, you probably won't be able to use your program track with the 4.0 decoder (unless you get a booster), which means you won't be able to read back any CV's. You should, however, be able to program on the main.

When you make a CV change on the main, does the change actually take effect ?

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

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Posted by NSDash09 on Saturday, November 24, 2012 1:46 PM

Yeah I've tried programming both on the main and on the program track and when on the program track and trying to read back all i get is zero for any CV's i have set. I CAN read back the address of the locomotive correctly. I'm not sure entirely about the specs of the MRC. I was under the impression that I wouldn't need a booster on the program track. I have programmed Tsunami's on it in the past. I do wonder, however, if the booster recommended for Tsunami decoders is only nessesary for changing sound functions because all the tsunamis I own were factory versions. I've only messed with speed matching and momentum on my two tsunamis. I'll probably just give ESU a call on Monday but all of the sales I have been seeing end sunday so that's kind of a bummer. If I need a programmer I would gladly take 10% off.

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Posted by NSDash09 on Saturday, November 24, 2012 2:07 PM

Reading through the V4 manual is a nightmare. I understand CV'c, bits, bytes, and binary. I have no idea what  mapping lines or "CV A, B, C..." mean. I might just bit the bullet and buy a programmer. I'm not happy with the horn or air compressor anyway and I'm sure I will buy more Loksound decoders in the future. I just wish it was cheaper. I need the money for College and Heritage Units.

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Posted by locoi1sa on Saturday, November 24, 2012 3:23 PM

NS.

 I got my programmer on E-bay for $50. The software is free from ESU at anytime. If you are in no hurry  then the same course is advisable. Although I do not have any version 4 decoders of my own I have done 2 instals for club members. The programmer works OK at best. ESU has not released any instructions for the latest programmer software. The only programming I have done is simple CV changes on the version 4 decoders. I have considerably more experience with the Loksound Select decoders with the programmer.

 I can understand the confusion about the tables in the ESU manuals. Just ignore the bits and bytes columns and concentrate on the CV and values columns.

     Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by locoi1sa on Saturday, November 24, 2012 4:27 PM

I had downloaded the decoder version 4 manual and flipped through it quickly. The version 4 decoder in fact uses indexed CVs for function changes. It uses CV31 and 32 for indexes that have to be changed to some value before changing functions.

 What exactly is it you want to accomplish? Maybe I can help in deciphering the tables for you.

     Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by NSDash09 on Saturday, November 24, 2012 5:03 PM

I need the CV's to set Aux 1 & Aux 2 as Ditch lights. I want them to flash alternately when the horn is sounded and I would prefer that I could turn them on and off with F4 (steady state).

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Posted by Mark R. on Saturday, November 24, 2012 5:17 PM

NSDash09

I need the CV's to set Aux 1 & Aux 2 as Ditch lights. I want them to flash alternately when the horn is sounded and I would prefer that I could turn them on and off with F4 (steady state).

I feel your pain in trying to decipher that manual. I've programmed / customized countless Loksound decoders using the programmer. Looking through that manual, I probably would have given up after the first one !

What you want to do is just a matter of checking a couple boxes using the programmer - so simple. Wish I could be more helpful, but I've gotten "dumbed down" due to the ease of not having to do those calculations by hand. The programmer really is a useful tool and well worth investing in. You'll find yourself doing all kinds of things you wouldn't have even attempted manually before.

Mark.

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Posted by locoi1sa on Saturday, November 24, 2012 5:29 PM

NS.

 For ditch light type 1 try changing CV31 to 16, CV32 to 0. This indexing will allow you to program lighting effects. Then CV 279 to 130 if you have LEDs or 2 for bulbs. Then CV287 to 131 for LED or 3 for bulbs. If this works when you blow the horn then we can work on remapping on/off to F4.

  Just make sure that you change CV31 and 32 first.

        Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by maxman on Saturday, November 24, 2012 7:46 PM

locoi1sa
 I got my programmer on E-bay for $50. The software is free from ESU at anytime. If you are in no hurry  then the same course is advisable.

Just a word of caution if you decide to do this.  There apparently was an original version of the programmer which cannot be upgraded.  This is discussed as one of the FAQ topics on the Loksound website.  You don't want to get one of the old flavor that someone is trying to get rid of.

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Posted by Mark R. on Saturday, November 24, 2012 8:32 PM

maxman

locoi1sa
 I got my programmer on E-bay for $50. The software is free from ESU at anytime. If you are in no hurry  then the same course is advisable.

Just a word of caution if you decide to do this.  There apparently was an original version of the programmer which cannot be upgraded.  This is discussed as one of the FAQ topics on the Loksound website.  You don't want to get one of the old flavor that someone is trying to get rid of.

If it's the black one, you should be ok. I'd steer clear if it's the blue one. Another thing as well - the earlier black ones came with a cable that seemed to be a weak link. I got a free upgrade / replacement for mine (not sure if they still do that) and haven't had a problem with any communication breakdowns since.

One last suggestion that has been discussed a lot is the power supply that comes with the programmer. It is rated at 500ma and works fine on the Select decoders and the earlier 3.5 decoders, but there was some speculation that it was inadequate for the newer 4.0 decoders that cam draw up to 1amp or more during programming. Odd thing was, that while there were a lot of people having that problem, there were equally a lot that weren't. (?) I have had a number of errors trying to write 4.0 decoders so I bought a 5 amp laptop power supply off ebay for $10 - it plugged right into the programmer and I haven't had a problem since.

Mark. 

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Posted by locoi1sa on Saturday, November 24, 2012 8:32 PM

Not true at all. There was the original blue colored programmer and the new dark grey colored programmer. The older programmer uses a different cable to your computer. they are both the same basic programmer. The major differences is in the connections and cables. 

 The programmer I got was one of the older blue colored ones. I replaced the serial cable with a USB and downloaded the new device driver and away it goes. I sometimes get an error message when starting the programmer that I need a Prolific USB cable but can ignore the message and keep going without trouble. Some people using Windows 7 have had troubles using the programmer and the Prolific USB cable. The latest Prolific corp. driver fixes this bug. 

 Look at the last two Q&A at the bottom. http://www.esu.eu/en/support/faq/lokprogrammer/

        Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by Mark R. on Saturday, November 24, 2012 8:51 PM

locoi1sa

Not true at all. There was the original blue colored programmer and the new dark grey colored programmer. The older programmer uses a different cable to your computer. they are both the same basic programmer. The major differences is in the connections and cables. 

 The programmer I got was one of the older blue colored ones. I replaced the serial cable with a USB and downloaded the new device driver and away it goes. I sometimes get an error message when starting the programmer that I need a Prolific USB cable but can ignore the message and keep going without trouble. Some people using Windows 7 have had troubles using the programmer and the Prolific USB cable. The latest Prolific corp. driver fixes this bug. 

 Look at the last two Q&A at the bottom. http://www.esu.eu/en/support/faq/lokprogrammer/

        Pete

Interesting - thanks for that Pete. Not sure if you follow the Yahoo Group or not, but last year there was a really extensive thread going about all the errors and crashes people were having trying to program the 4.0 decoders (myself included). So, obviously, the older blue ones weren't the actual problem as they are apparently identical internally. Ultimately, the problem is / was communication related - whether it be the cable or the computer hardware itself. Some observed significant improvement by adjusting the baud rate of their computer. MY problems disappeared with the new power supply. Some claim the problems went away due to bugs in the software that were addressed starting around the 4.3.1 version. What the real problem is / was never seemed to have gotten pin-pointed, but I tend to believe it was the software itself and has since been corrected, as the topic seems to have died off and things seem to be working fine.

That all being said - as long as the OP installs the latest software - 4.3.4 - things should work just fine with the possible exception of the cable depending on which one it comes with.

Mark. 

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Posted by locoi1sa on Saturday, November 24, 2012 9:27 PM

Mark.

 I think most of the issues people were having with the programmer were all self inflicted. When you suggest they update the driver they give you the deer in the headlight look. I had to walk several people through this simple task. One individual  when I asked him to click on my computer he said "How can I? I don't know where you live." and meant it! I then asked if his wife was home to do the update. It turned out that the 14 year old son had no problem updating the driver and programming the dads loco for him. He is now another club member. All because he can use computers to run and program trains. Darn good  kid at that.

        Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by Mark R. on Saturday, November 24, 2012 9:58 PM

Too funny Pete !

I guess we sometimes forget that not everybody is on the same wave length .... or at least have some kind of remote knowledge of what we are trying to convey !

Mark.

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Posted by maxman on Saturday, November 24, 2012 10:41 PM

locoi1sa
Not true at all. There was the original blue colored programmer and the new dark grey colored programmer. The older programmer uses a different cable to your computer. they are both the same basic programmer. The major differences is in the connections and cables.

Well, okay, if you say so.  You guys know more than I do.  But I'm not making this up.

I was referencing the ESU FAQ website, http://www.esu.eu/en/support/faq/lokprogrammer/.  If you scroll down they talk about "the old 50450" programmer.  The new is a 53451.

One of the questions is "Can I use the new software 2.x with the old LokProgrammer 50450?"

The answer was:
'Unfortunately, no. The software for the LokProgrammer 53451 version 2.00 can not be used for the hardware version 1 (small blue or black enclosure). If you want to program LokSound V3.x decoders you need LokProgrammer 53451. With the software of this new LokProgrammer you are able to program the older LokSound2 decoders as well."
 
They also tell how to determine the old from the new.  They say: "How can I identify the old 50450 LokProgrammer, where is the difference to the new 53451?
 
The answer was:
"The old LokProgrammer 50450 can be identified by the enclosure, it will be the old LokProgrammer if:

• the enclosure of the LokProgrammers is a little black module case. • the enclosure of the LokProgrammers is a little, blue module (see picture below): (you'll have to visit the site to see the picture)

The European CE-Sign is in the right upper corner, and the web address "www.loksound.de"is not printed."

They don't exactly have side by side pictures, but if the one in the picture is of an old blue programmer, it looks pretty much the same as the newer blue version I had occasion to use.

Now further down in the FAQs there is a question relating to a difference between the 53451 and a 53452.  They say that the 53452 came with a US 120 volt power supply and was distributed in the USA only.  The 53451 has a 240 volt power supply.

And directly below that FAQ is another that talks about the difference between the 53451 and the 53450.  The 53450 seems to be yet another set they offered.  They say the 53451 came with a usb cable.  I asssume that this means that the 53450 didn't.

So, my advice still stands...you should make sure that you are getting the correct version if you buy from ebay or anywhere else.

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Posted by Mark R. on Saturday, November 24, 2012 11:04 PM

In a nutshell ....

You don't want this one (53450)  ....

You want either of these (53452 / 53451) ....

 

A lot of people are successfully using the 53451, but I'd suggest getting the 53452. Both require a maximum power supply of 20 volts. If it doesn't come with a power supply, a laptop supply rated for 16 or 18 volts works great and can be had for dirt cheap .... and works better than the US supplied power supply.

Mark.

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