Realistic Sound

[DigitalGriffin]

The steam sample quality on the soundtraxx maybe slightly better.  I have noticed this too.  This may be due to the fact the onboard equlizer on the Tsunami is set to roll off frequencies in the bass region, so no evergy is wasted trying to reproduce it.

BUT

The QSI boards offer the same features as the tsunami, and a few others.  (Like the cylinder steam cock valve opening when starting up after idling...which is very realistic)

I'm currently trying to fit two High Bass 1.50" speakers in a HO C&O H-8 Allegheny tender (by putting them behind a 45 degree baffle) and by using a QSI Titan.  I'll post a video when done.

 

All sound boards fail in the following area:

1.  Playable whistle.

2.  Variable cutoff.  Even though the QSI Revolution + boards support it, it still doesn't sound like a train at speed.  Most start to sound like stacato static.  I imagine the problem being getting a good clean isolated chuff sample at speed with various valve cuttoff settings is difficult, if not impossible.  One way they could fix this is to start mixing in high speed chuff sample once you get above a certain speed step.

 

 

 

[BRAKIE]

I favor the Tsunami decoders  for various reasons.

Now,let's take the next step after the noise maker is installed.

Now its time to fine tune the sound with the locomotive throttle settings including CVs for momentum and braking.I'm still learning by experimenting

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This gentleman nailed it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLPhXHHWKSQ&feature=relmfu

 

IMHO this is where DCC/Sound shines the most.

Love his throttle.

 

[narrow gauge nuclear]

I have always felt that Tsunami Sound decoders were the best for steam.  Their best effort is in the HOn3 area.  The realism is there for me.  I have installed a few Tsunamis in Brass HOn3 engines that I picked up off e-bay and the secret is the baffle and the speaker.  I only use the Blackstone small "super bass" speakers and shed a tear as I bore a gang o' holes in the once nice brass tender.  The results are fabulous to say the least provided you explore the processor and not settle for their default choices.

Like a couple of others here the Tsunami whistles are less than stellar and 80% of the choices are true crap.  Thus, I have settled on one or two of my favorites in the CV pile where they have done well.

Overall, for steam, Tsunami is great provided you do a creditable baffle, use the correct super bass speaker and work the sound processor CVs.

I am really super critical when it comes to my steam sounds and find all the others I have heard, less than up to snuff.

Richard 

 

[richhotrain]

I may have created a bit of a firestorm when I started this thread.

I was speaking less about fidelity than I was about realistim in the sound offered by various decoder manufacturers.

What prompted my question was the sound on an Intermountain F3 which seemed a bit unrealistic to me.  But Randy's follow-up YouTube link in a separate thread convinced me that Intermountain got it right. 

Randy's point in this thread about fidelity is a good one.  The sounds may be realistic, but the small speaker systems are incapable of reproducing those sounds with true fidelity.

Rich

[rrinker]

 That's not totally true, it depends on the decoder and the sound sample used. Sound decoders do not generally produce much low frequency sound not because the amplifiers in them roll off, but because the speakers connected cannot reproduce the sounds. Listening to some of the sound samples that are actually stored in the decoder, but playing through a more full range speaker system, you can hear the low frequency rumbles, they're in there, just no way to get them out in a 1" or smaller speaker.

 What is impossible is sending the sounds from an onboard decoder back to some stationary amplifier. Maybe with some sort of wireless transmission, but good luck fitting all that in a loco. What could work is a second decoder mounted under the layout and MU'd to the running loco. Downside is you'd need at least one extra sound decoder of each ty[e that is in use, each with it's own under-layout speaker and amp. For best results, one for each running loco - so to run 6 sound locos you'd need 6 MORE sound decoders, speakers, and amps. Kinda gets expensive real quick and makes the completely under layout Surroundtraxx start looking cheap.

                          --Randy

 

[Dave Merrill]

Texas Zepher

Idaho_Cowboy

I have often wondered why some of the sound for DCC doesn't include a subwoofer or two wired outside the layout.  However I've yet to see a system with this level of sophicication, nor am I smarter enough to figure out how to build it on my own.

You have not seen it done because it is not currently possible.  

Not quite exactly true.  Using the Virtual Sound Decoder feature in JMRI you can program a JMRI throttle (or  a WiThrottle) to produce desired sounds through your computer speaker output which could be connected to an under-layout speaker/woofer.  Would take a bit of work with sound files to get what you want but the technology is in place.

Warm Regards,

Dave

[Texas Zepher]

Idaho_Cowboy

I have often wondered why some of the sound for DCC doesn't include a subwoofer or two wired outside the layout.  However I've yet to see a system with this level of sophicication, nor am I smarter enough to figure out how to build it on my own.

You have not seen it done because it is not currently possible.   The DCC decoders do not produce frequencies in the low ranges that a sub-woofer would respond to.   Were a DCC sound decoder connected directly to a high quality properly configured AV amplifier the sub-woofer would be silent.   This is an intentional design since the people who build the on-board decoders know what frequencies a  tiny (about 1 1/4" ) speaker can handle and design the on-board audio circuits to match.   If you think about it that makes perfect sense.  Why spend a bunch of money to design and build an audio amplifier that can produce frequencies that the intended speakers can't reproduce.  Doing so might even degredate the sound fidelity of the frequencies that the speakers are designed for.   It is a sticky wicket.  One wants high fidelity but all we have is a tiny loco tender or body to work with.  Too bad sound to the human ear doesn't "scale down" as easy as the locomotives do.

This was actually discussed at length in a thread about 4 years ago as we helped someone figure out how to connect their CD player to play through the rails to the locomotive.   I don't know how hard it would to find that thread since the forum software change.

On the other hand, the PFM system (1977 or so vintage) mentioned earlier did have a special under layout module to connect to a normal stereo system and get the non-directional low frequencies out for better fidelity.   I don't remember what they called it.   I've got a couple of them sitting around here somewhere. 

P.S.  I found it.   PFM called the unit "PFM-07 Stationary Speaker Filter".

[NSDash09]

By far the best you can do is find a way to get 2 high quality speakers in the same loco. My Atlas Dash 8 with dual (not bass enhanced) QSI speakers and a Loksound select decoder is louder and clearer than my Tsunami equipped SD60I. My Athearn Dash 9 (NS so custom headlights, filled in nose light etc.) will soon have a Railmaster high bass under the radiator and a tony's speaker behind the cab. If you have dual speakers read the manual. I use 8 ohm speakers but i have to check parallel vs. series every time.

[maxman]

yankee flyer

I do seem to remember that someone made an under the table sound system

 

http://www.soundtraxx.com/surround/

[twcenterprises]

yankee flyer

I was just making the point that one can not get good realistic sound out of a  1" speaker.  I do seem to remember that someone made an under the table sound system, but unless it was some how feed by the on board decoder (synchronized) the sound would not seem realistic either.

I believe this system relies on setting your tracks up into electrical blocks, as the train travels from one block to the next, the volume gets louder and louder.  Which could be an OK thing if you plan to break it up into blocks for signaling.

Brad

[yankee flyer]

jrbernier

  That is not a fair comparison.  If I were to run those sound files through my theater system, you computer speaker system would not compare so well!

   

Hi Jim

I was just making the point that one can not get good realistic sound out of a  1" speaker.  I do seem to remember that someone made an under the table sound system, but unless it was some how feed by the on board decoder (synchronized) the sound would not seem realistic either.

Keep on railroading.

Lee

[jrbernier]

yankee flyer

There is no realistic sound in HO decoders, in my opinion. (All of my locos are sound).   Case in point, I can go to Tsunami sound samples with my computers dual speakers and large sub woofer, play the samples and WOW! gotta have that. Now play this sample through a 1" speaker, bummer.  I do have one decoder with the base type speaker, and I feel it does have a little better sound.

Lee,

  That is not a fair comparison.  If I were to run those sound files through my theater system, you computer speaker system would not compare so well!

  I am amazed how 'good' these sound decoder/speakers are.  I remember the old PFM sound system in the late 60's - the steam sound was just scratchy sound from a 'noisy' diode, and everyone was amazed with it.  Speaker installation is everything with sound equipped HO models.  Even an 'old technology' Digitrax 8 bit sound decoder can sound decent with the right speaker/baffle combination.  If you want a real DCC/Sound install concern - Try N scale!

Jim

[Rastafarr]

Has anyone had a chance to play with that Surroundtrax thingybob yet? Seems like an interesting idea; put the speakers somewhere other than the locos so you can size up and feel the rumblin...

[Idaho_Cowboy]

This also becomes more of a problem with certain locos. The whistles on a little 1800's teakeatlle with its high piteched shriek will come across better on a 1" speaker than the low deep whistle of a Union Paicifc 484.

Since deep sounds carry father (like rumbling the whole house with EMD 567 idle noise) I have often wondered why some of the sound for DCC doesn't include a subwoofer or two wired outside the layout.  However I've yet to see a system with this level of sophicication, nor am I smarter enough to figure out how to build it on my own.

[selector]

My last two steam purchases were a BLI A Class 2-6-6-4 and a Mountain 4-8-2 by Bachmann Spectrum.  Each has a QSI Titan with preloaded sounds.  As far as I am concerned, they are the new standard by which all must be compared, and that includes the Loksound, which I feel are the best.  I have grown soft on Tsunamis because too many of their sounds are now generic where other companies have invested efforts to acquire specific and identifiable sound fiiles.

Crandell

[yankee flyer]

There is no realistic sound in HO decoders, in my opinion. (All of my locos are sound).   Case in point, I can go to Tsunami sound samples with my computers dual speakers and large sub woofer, play the samples and WOW! gotta have that. Now play this sample through a 1" speaker, bummer.  I do have one decoder with the base type speaker, and I feel it does have a little better sound.

Have fun and enjoy.

Lee

Sound samples

  http://www.soundtraxx.com/dsd/tsunami/tsunamisound.php

[joe323]

Actually to make to make the horns and whistles as lound as the real thing would land me and I am sure others in divorce court real fast.

[richhotrain]

Texas Zepher

I don't mean stuff like brake sounds, bells, etc.

I find that an interesting comment.  Bells can be as characteristic of a loco as the whistle.

TZ, that's a fair comment. 

I am interested in every aspect of the sound decoder, but the horn or whistle is such a prominent sound that I am interested in what others think about the realism, or lack thereof, of the horn or whistle in particular.

Rich

[Texas Zepher]

richhotrain

In your opinion, which locos have the most realistic sound?  The least realistic sound?  Steam?  Diesel?

Well, opinions aren't worth much.  But I find any locos with the MRC DCC decoders to be the worst, save maybe the 1980s on-board units from circuitron?. 

I don't mean stuff like brake sounds, bells, etc.

I find that an interesting comment.  Bells can be as characteristic of a loco as the whistle.

I am simply interested in your opinion on the basic whistle when you sound the horn.

The most realistic will be one with a playable whistle.  In my stable this is a 1978 Yellowstone with a PFM sound module in it.  The tender is huge which allows a really big speaker and for HO scale produces a pretty good sound.

[rrinker]

 The Tsunami steam decoders I have heard have the best steam sounds, they are one of the few that actually cut off the chuffs and let you hear rod clank when drifting, in coast down and when going downhill. But the whistles are kind of weak, like their diesel horns. Despite a lot of fiddling with the equalizer and adjusting sound levels, they just don;t seem to be loud and deep enough, regardless of speaker install.

 For all the care to make the steam sounds work with load, they seem to have taken a vacation when it came to the diesel sounds (see my other post). There's none of that load-sensing goodness that the steam decoders have.

 My favorite currently running diesel is my Atlas with QSI. The horn is nice and loud, and the proper type for the prototype, and the engine sounds rev up and coast down nicely. Once I get it installed I think my Loksound will be even better, but there is some prejuidice to the model type, as this is going in one of my RS3's which are my all-time favorite diesel. It has a nice solid Alco ka-chunka loping idle, and the horn is dead on - mainly because their sound library lists exactly what model each horn is and I was able to select the exact one used by my prototype and make that part of the sound set.

            --Randy

 

[richhotrain]

I have sound on several of locos including BLI Paragon, BLI Blue Line, Athearn Genesis, Proto 2000, Walthers Proto, and Intermountain.

In your opinion, which locos have the most realistic sound?  The least realistic sound?  Steam?  Diesel?

I don't mean stuff like brake sounds, bells, etc. 

I am simply interested in your opinion on the basic whistle when you sound the horn.

Rich