?action=view¤t=f0d54e46.mp4
This is a video above is to give you the overall detail of my layout. The video below will show you that everytime I move the SEPTA AEM locomotive over the turnouts it stalls and causes a short circuit. Turn up your pc volume and you will hear a beep comming from my Digitrax DB150.
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The video bellow is the same but shows a different section of the layout.
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What should I do to eliminate this? Do I need an automatic reverser? Im troubleshooting this issue so far I see no obstacle in the wiring that would cause any short circuit.
The picture below is a normal diagram of my layout. Note that the red markings that you see in the middle and lower left of the diagram are not grade crossings but ate actually grade separated overpasses. They should not be mistaken for crossovers with wire feeders.
The diagram below shows the short circuit in detail and feeder wires in red.
So to confirm, this loco and no other has the problem, all your other locomotives work fine on the switches?
Does this loco do this on all the switches?
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Every locomotive I have does that. My locomotives does this at the switches shown in the video.
Your opposing turnout in the crossover is set for the tangent and against the turnout approached by the AEM. Have you tried it set for the diverging route?
Dante
PS. It appears that one frog is insulated and the other is not.
What Should I do to remedy the issue regarding the opposing turnout? Do I need an autoreverser? In the meanwhile I will simply remove the turnout with only one insulated frog.
what happens when you set the turnout correctly?
alloboard What Should I do to remedy the issue regarding the opposing turnout? Do I need an autoreverser? In the meanwhile I will simply remove the turnout with only one insulated frog.
I believe the solution is to isolate the frog of the lower turnout by cutting gaps in the stock rails that diverge from that frog (use a Dremel or a saw). Make sure the turnouts are fed power from their point sides and not the frog sides.
The same thing happens.
Thanks for the suggestion. I will go ahead and do that. I will inform this forum thread when this issue is resolved.
HHPATH56Any time you have a "crossover or a run-around" with the frog ends facing each other, you are completing a reverse loop, that requires insulating the turnout with a AR1 Reverse module to prevent a short circuit. The use of "double slip switches" will prevent shorts. Bob Hahn
I don't believe you need a reverse module. I have 3 crossover situations (with curved turnouts) that have one insulated frog opposing one non-insulated frog. I didn't actually cut the gaps as I suggested above but used insulating joiners on those stock rails diverging from the non-insulated frogs. They work. Just make sure the points are set for the direction of travel.
HHPATH56Any time you have a "crossover or a run-around" with the frog ends facing each other, you are completing a reverse loop,
The statement "any time" is not accurate. One often needs gaps when connecting turnouts frog-end to frog-end, but not a reverser unless the connection creates a reversing loop elsewhere in the plan. In many cases, it does not.
HHPATH56 The use of "double slip switches" will prevent shorts.
Again, not accurate all the time. One can create reversing loops and shorts by adding double slips, depending on the overall track arrangement.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Looking at one of your videos,what you have is a reverse loop. It looks like you have 2 reverse loops. So yes you need at least 2 auto reversers, or simplfy your track. It looks like you have Atlas track code 100. These are insulated frogs and you don't to worry about insulating them. A reverse loop is when a train goes through a turn out one way, continues down the track and comes back the opposite way on the other track hooked up to the same turn out. Joe
Yes indeed it is.
Yes it is a reverse loop.
alloboard, take this as constructive criticism.
There is too much blurry, jittery video to clearly identify your problem.
It would be much more helpful to see a track diagram.
Rich
Alton Junction
I will send a track diagram on my next reply.
This is the normal diagram below
The diagram below shows the short circuits and feeder wires in red.
You've actually got multiple reverse loops there, with all those crossovers. Your best bet to fix the right hand side would be to put gaps in both rails of both tracks of the right-hand loops. One set just ot the left of where the feeder somes in, the other set just to the right of the top right crossover. Both rails, of both tracks. You will need two autoreverses to feed that area, one for each loop.
Then there are 2 more loops on the bottom part, which when combined with the same set of crossovers in the 'yard' part make 2 more reverse loops. Gaps just to the right of where it says "undecided" at the bottom center, and the other set of gaps where the lines are goign strgith up on the far left should make a long enough reverseing section - that's two MORE autoreversers. Or sicne a total of 4 - a single PM42 with all 4 sectiosn set up for autoreversing.
There are probably other ways to handle it, but this is the most obvious, even if not most economical. Yor layout is essentially a dogbone with crossovers in the shank portion, which form reverse loops out of the end loops.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The wye in the upper right portion of your layout, which I have circled in white, is the source of your problem.
It creates a reverse loop which must be isolated and gapped.
You will either need an auto-reverser or a DPDT switch to match polarities.
While I was composing my reply, Randy posted his reply. He sees more issues than just the upper right hand portion of your layout.
I think we need more clarification about the other parts of your layout. Are those other red areas crossings or are they elevated sections of track crossing over ground sections of track?
Hi!
One thing I would consider doing is everywhere you have a reverse loop, I would insert insulator rail joiners or cut gaps. This will get you to the point that all trackage is powered, and you have no shorts (except when a loco crosses the breaks). Anyway, then - assuming you are in DCC - I would install the reverse loop breakers (forgot the proper name)...................
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Note that the red markings that you see in the middle and lower left of the diagram are not grade crossings but are actually grade separated overpasses. They should not be mistaken for crossovers with wire feeders. Thanks a lot for the reference regarding the gaps and the auto reverser. I have a Digitrax DB150 with a PR3 connected to my PC. I believe that I need the Digitrax AR1. I never really understood how the auto reversing concept worked but I think I understand it better now that I know that I have to gap the whole loop. Does the Digitrax AR1 supply its own power? How does auto reversing work?
An auto-reverser receives its power from the main bus wires. Feeder wires connect from the main bus wires to the input side of the auto-reverser, supplying it with power. The feeder wires from the reversing section connect to the output side of the auto-reverser. The auto-reverser senses a reverse polarity situation and immediately matches the polarities to prevent a short.
I see. I appreciate your effort in helping me troubleshoot this issue.
Those other red areas are elevated crossings. I should have made that clearer and pointed it out earlier.
I thank you all for your help in this thread. As a token of my gratitude I will inform you to check out Model Memories.com, Island Model Works, and Imperial Hobby Productions. The Metroliners are back now from Walthers.com they will start shipping in 2013.
Those crossovers connecting your double main line to the lower yard actually result in a reverse polarity situation at two points in the upper right portion of your track diagram. A single AR-1 can deal with the problem by completely gapping the wye and the connection to the wye at the crossover right above the tail of the wye. So, four sets of gaps need to be installed in your track work. The two legs of the wye should be gapped, the center of the crossover just beyond the tail of the wye should be gapped, and just before the beginning of the second crossover beyond the tail of the wye,
The issue here is how long the reversing section needs to be so that it is long enough to avoid having a train entering and exiting the reversing section at the same time. So, you are going to have to consider exactly where your reversing section needs to be gapped and how long the reversing section needs to be.
One curious feature of your track plan is that the double main line is not really a continuous loop. As the double main line continues through the wye, the right leg of the wye carries one main line track into the other main line track at the right hand turnout below the wye. If you trace the double main line around the layout, the outer main line track continues to the left under the wye and then abrubtly ends at the left side of the layout and is marked "undecided".
The overall visual concept regarding the fact that I will install an auto reverser and the existing track feeder wires makes it complicated. I don't know what to do with my existing track feeder wires to distribute power evenly without power loss. In the diagram and the video you will see existing track insulators and the blocks they result in. So what should I do regarding the existing feeder wires. When I install the AR1 or PM42, what should I do about my feeder wires? Should I simply remove or rewire the existing track feeders to accommodate the auto reversing revision installment? We don't want the AR1 district to distribute it's power to other portions of the layout via the existing track feeders that may cause other problems and intermittent movements and operations. The line you were inquiring about is not really an outer main line but a branch line. My layout is in the room of my upper level of my house. The lower portion of my layout runs under my bed! The line that was marked undecided may eventually be re aligned to run out of my room into the hallway forming it's own loop! My layout is based on the inspiration of "Union Interlock" in Rahway New Jersey, except the loop. It's literally a flying junction "where the red marked overpass crossings are" leading to the Interlocking interchange with the crossovers leading to the wye.
All the feeders in teh reversing section, between the insulated joiners, must go to the output of the AR1. The rest of the feeders for the layout, you leave alone. The input to the AR1 connects to the main bus coming from your booster.