I have an older Blackstone HOn3 K27 loco for which I purchased a Soundtraxx decoder, #826501, which is specific for this loco. As normal, it has "03" as its address, and I wanted to change its address to "454" but it wouldn't seem to take it. I am using a Digitrax Superchief Xtra Duplex Radio system. I was running it as 03, bells and whistles, as it were, but after reprogramming it to 454, it would run, bells and whistles, too. It does sit and has the idling steam sounds, but won't run. I should mention that this particular decoder is now out of production, and I was able to get one thru Caboose Hobbies in Denver, but while purchasing it, I was aware that it would come with no instruction data, as is usual with all new decoders packaged by its manufacturer. So, I am working with this somewhat "blind". I have been in communication with Soundtraxx and they are trying to be helpful.
I tried reprogramming it to 03, but to no avail. Then I tried CV 8, which I think converts all CV's back to the original programming.....didn't work, either.
Is there someone out there that has had similar experiences with this decoder, or others who could help me figure this out? What am I doing wrong, or not doing?
Thanks for any help you can supply.
-Al
I am confused? You said that after reprogramming to address 454 it would run, bells and whistles too. then in the next line you say that It will not run. I am guessing it is not responding to you controler, Right?
I think that you need to have a programming track booster for the Digitrax system to be able to program the Tsunami decoder.
For instructions on the Tsumani decoder go to the SoundTrxx web page and look at the guide here.
http://www.soundtraxx.com/manuals/tsunamisteam_users_guide.pdf
Soundtraxx makes one, A PTB-100. DCC specalties makes on too, called a PowerPax.
Hope this might help you.
I've had to purchase a booster to program my Tsunami's with my Digitrax setup.However,you've been able to change the adress so may be changing a CV at a time is possible.Try programming on the main in "Ops" mode,then try CV29=50 and CV25=2.It may not correct your problem but won't hurt the decoder.Without being able to read back CV's,you have to try programming blind.
Make sure the brakes aren't on. F11 for a lot of their decoders.
Richard
Indeed!I hadn't thought of this feature...could be THAT simple.
woodone,
Sorry. That line mean't to say: "after changing address to 454, it WOULDN'T run at all. After changing it back to 03, it still wouldn't run, bells, whistles, etc."
Soundtraxx suggested that I change the address in OPS mode, which I did, but that didn't seem to work either. They suggested OPS mode due to most power is available without using a booster.
I will look at the "brakes" idea, though.
Thanks for your reply.
If you can find someone with Decoder Pro (or download it to your laptop)--you can use Decoder Pro to read all the CVs and tell you what they are through it's GUI interface. I find this very helpful. You will need the Program Booster to read the CVs and Locobuffer USB(or similar) to interface the computer.
"it still wouldn't run,bells,whistles,etc"...indeed confusing.Do you mean no movement AND no sound at all?Totally dead?In this case you should check for a disconnected/broken wire.Does the decoder lamp turn on with track power?This is the first possibility you have to check.
Lamp turns on and you have all the sounds...then you possibly have a broken wire to the motor (or motor has died,most unlikely).If all the sounds work and you have no movement,be aware that Soundtraxx decoders are equipped with a built in fuse to protect them from shorted or power hungry motors,it may have burned out.Was the motor current draw checked before installing the decoder?It may be your problem.If so,the decoder will need Soundtraxx's repairman.
You have an idling sound,or no sound at all and connections all check OK (decoder lamp goes on) then you likely have scrambled a CV accidentally and not being able to read them doesn't help.Do you know of a fellow modeler or a local club who may help you out?This failing,you can visit Soundtraxx's website,click "manuals" then "Steam sound user's guide",it's a very good walkthrough.I printed this manual,it's 74 pages though.
It probably has something to with a CV that I changed inadvertantly. All I wanted to do was change the address from 03 to 454.
No, I can't turn the headlight on or off, in either 03 address, or 454 address. (Good idea with Decoder Pro. I do know someone with this program. I will eventually download it myself.)
Yes, it "idles" with steam sound.....compressors, steam escaping, etc. But, it won't respond to the throttle when I want to move it down the tracks. Nor will the whistle and bell respond to the throttle.
Hope this clarifies my problem. Thanks for your ideas!
Just use Ops Mode and program the new address on the main. First reset it using CV30-2, then it will be address 3 againa nd should work fine liek it used to. Then use ops mode to set CV17 and CV18 per thie calculator below. FInally, set CV29 per the calculator. Now select the deisred address and it should be working fine. Boosters aren't needed.
http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/cv29%20calculator.htm
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Al
I wonder if the problem is related to trying to input a three digit address? I thought decoders used either two or four digit addresses. Perhaps you have inadvertently given the decoder a botched address because it was looking for four digits but only got three.
I have an InterMountain F7B with QSI sound. It would make the start up sounds and idle but would not respond to the throttle. I discovered that I was not inputting the long address properly so the address I was trying to use was not the address the decoder had been told to respond to. It took several attempts at resetting to fix the problem once I figured out what I was doing wrong.
By the way, Randy is your friend in these cases - he knows the ins and outs of DCC in amazing detail. Give his suggestions a try.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
rrinker Just use Ops Mode and program the new address on the main. First reset it using CV30-2, then it will be address 3 againa nd should work fine liek it used to. Then use ops mode to set CV17 and CV18 per thie calculator below. FInally, set CV29 per the calculator. Now select the deisred address and it should be working fine. Boosters aren't needed. http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/cv29%20calculator.htm --Randy
Yep....Randy nailed it here
The tsunami can have errors when the command station configures a long address. I have used this method to program tsunamis to any address over two digits long. It even works to get rid of headlight issues with QSI decoders...
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
I use Digitrax Superchief Xtra Duplex Radio.....when you go to "program", it brings up AD2 (CV1). Push the right knob to change to AD4 (4 digit address: CV17,18). This is what I've done. Do you think that the Soundtraxx decoders aren't happy with the Digitrax method for addressing? Could that be possible? I have programmed 12 diesels with various makes and types of decoders in Page mode with no problems.
Thanks for your suggestions.
It's an issue of power ont he program track. I can program my Tsunami just fine doign that with my Zephyr, from a DT40x throttle. No blast mode. It also works from a DT40x throttle connected to a DB150. Just the DCS100 seems ot have the problem, yet will program any other decoder.
QSI is the one that seems to sometime have problems with the automatic setting of CV29 when switching to a long address. Even witht he verbal response turned off, there seems to be a delay from when it accepst CV17 and CV18 until it can accept another CV settin, in this case CV29. It works ok from a DT40x throttle though, because you cna press Y to the AD4? prompt multiple times which just resends the CV29 setting.
Just a thought, but have you tried "reading" the address after programming it?? I've had a few times I've had a problem like you described, and it turned out the engine's ID wasn't anything like what I thought I had programmed into it. Some decoders automagically enter a long address / ID no. when you put it in, but some don't and require you to make entries in two different CV's to get a long address.
For example, on my Zephyr, if I want to add an ID of 327, I would go to page mode, hit "loco" and scroll past two-digit address to four-digit address and then read it. It should come up "0003". I change that to 327 (technically "0327") and hit the programming button. It normally can add the three digit address with no problem, but on some older decoders you have to do a math calculation and do the two CVs one at a time to get the right result.
BTW as I recall a "two digit" address is number 01 to 127, I think because a CV can have 128 "bits" of information. anything above that is a "four digit" address and requires a second CV get involved.
Al, you have an out of production decoder. I dont think it can do a four diget address of 0504? Maybe your address is 05 or 54?
Bob Frey
Website: http://bobfrey.auclair.com
As I mentioned in my original post, the decoder came with no manual (being out of production), therefore I had no info to go on. I ALWAYS read manuals that come with products, but this time there was none. I don't have your vast knowledge in decoder technology, but I DO follow instructions when available and I have followed the manufacturer's suggestions which I would think have some weight!
Thanks for your input. I will give it a try.
I understand your situation...was like you not too far ago.OK...Soundtraxx supplies very thorough infos on their website that not only relates to their products as it is a great learning tool to understand how CV's affect decoder performance,whatever the brand.
Visit Soundtraxx's website and in the bottom right corner of their home page you'll have "Quick links".Click "Manuals" and look for "Steam user's" guides.They have two versions,one basic and one more "in depth".I've printed both of them (approx 80 pages each) and look into them frequently.
Then you could click their "Factory installed decoders".They list many sets of default CV settings in wich you'll likely find one that suits your model.They may be slightly short of real "fine tuning" for your particular model,but still should have it running.
astapleford As I mentioned in my original post, the decoder came with no manual (being out of production),
As I mentioned in my original post, the decoder came with no manual (being out of production),
I'm not sure how you determined that your decoder is "out of production". I believe you said that it was a 826501. It seems to be listed here at the Soundtraxx website: http://www.soundtraxx.com/choose/step3.php?t=ho&s=Blackstone
Since it is a Tsunami, I believe that the steam users guide and steam technical reference should both apply.
Soundtraxx and Caboose Hobbies informed me that 286501 was out of production and couldn't supply tech data when I purchased this decoder. I will look at the Soundtraxx website and check it out.
BTW, I've been very busy this week wih a local Humane Society with a huge yard sale benefitting the shelter. I really appreciate all the information on my decoder problem. I do intend to try Randy's ideas and all others to get my loco up and running as 454! There is obviously a solution and will get it "goin'".
Thanks again guys.
astapleford Soundtraxx and Caboose Hobbies informed me that 286501 was out of production and couldn't supply tech data when I purchased this decoder. I will look at the Soundtraxx website and check it out.
I guess it could be out of production even though it is shown on the website. However, I would think that if it is a Tsunami decoder as the prefix TSU implies it would have all the same documentation as the other steam Tsunamis. However, I could be wrong (again).
Since Blackstone is still selling narrow gage prototype locos, maybe a better question to ask them is what decoder they are using to replace the original 826501.
SOUNDTRAXX DCC SOUND DECODER:
Example: Compute CV 17 and 18 register values for extended address 0454.
1. Add 0454 to 49152: Sum = 49606.
2. Divide 69606 by 256: Quotient = 193 Remainder = 198
3. Program CV 17 to 219
4. Program CV 18 to 198
Note: Most command stations will handle these computations automatically
Extended Address: Bit 5 of CV29 set to 1 Then CV29= 034
Robert Frey SOUNDTRAXX DCC SOUND DECODER: Example: Compute CV 17 and 18 register values for extended address 0454. 1. Add 0454 to 49152: Sum = 49606. 2. Divide 69606 by 256: Quotient = 193 Remainder = 198 3. Program CV 17 to 219 4. Program CV 18 to 198 Note: Most command stations will handle these computations automatically Extended Address: Bit 5 of CV29 set to 1 Then CV29= 034 Bob Frey
I believe that you mis-typed the value for CV 17. I think it should be 193, not 219.
Also, it is easier to just use one of the calculators that can be found on-line, such as: http://www.ruppweb.org/Xray/comp/decoder.htm
David,
I haven't resolved the issue yet. I will let you know when I've sorted it out, if you like. I have a friend who will be coming over to help me out with it. He, like many here who have responded, is experienced. Sometimes being on site is best so as to see what is going on.
Randy, I tried converting the loco back to 03, and doing CV30-2, it didn't seem to work. Actually, I am not sure what this decoder is really programmed to!........ Hopefully my friend can find out.
So as not to have others taking up their time responding to my problem, please consider this thread closed for now.
Thanks for your help.
I had someone with Decoder Pro read the 826501 decoder. As I expected, it was "pilot error".....me!
It seems somehow, that it was programmed with 3 as its 2 digit address, and 03 as its 4 digit address. I can't explain how I did that, but he was able to change the 4 digit address to 454, and the loco came to life. I have installed about 14 decoders in diesels and programmed them with no issues. I guess when it comes to the older Tsunamis, manual programming (i.e. actual calculations and entering these directly into the appropriate CV's) is in order!...... maybe(?)
Thanks again guys for your suggestions and help. My K-27 is a joy to run to hear the terrific sound!
Put the loco on the programming track that is sepperated from the main line. Try using either pg or pd programming mode to reset it to factory settings. Your command station will beep using either of these modes. You'll have to power up the system again after using this method- power button then y/+ button. I use this method on some stubborn decoders. Never had a problem. I suggest a PR3 and Decoder Pro as well. These are great tools to have. Joe