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re-motoring

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  • Member since
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re-motoring
Posted by spike64 on Monday, June 4, 2012 1:14 AM

I have a vintage Japanese made engine, powered by a Pittman open frame motor.  To make a long story short, my plan is to replace the complete drive system with two NWSL spud trucks.  My question, do I treat

the two individual  power trucks as two separate engines and then mu so this can be run by dcc?

I would appreciate some guidance as to what is the best way to approach this.

Tags: DCC , MU
  • Member since
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  • From: Western, MA
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Posted by richg1998 on Monday, June 4, 2012 8:33 AM

You an also email Dave at NWSL He has done an all metal old HO MDC 4-4-2 for me which had a Pittman motor. He re-geared and re-motored for me. He does answer email as I have corresponded with him before. He would have suggestions on what to use. I could have done this with parts from him but was pressed for time.

http://www.nwsl.com/

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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  • From: Fruita, CO
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Posted by slammin on Monday, June 4, 2012 1:12 PM

If your engine is big enough to have an open frame Pittman, you should consider a can motor. The Spud design has been around for decades. I'm not certain how DCC friendly it is. That aside why go thru hassle of wiring two motors when one would do the job.

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Posted by spike64 on Monday, June 4, 2012 2:23 PM

My take on this is that (a) I have the trucks, (b) the factory trucks are of such age ( cast zinc, some fiber gears) that to refurbish them may not be at all possible.  However I appreciate the tip to contact NWSL.

They may have a unique take on this .

THANKS  Russ

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Posted by locoi1sa on Monday, June 4, 2012 4:54 PM

Spike.

 Two things come to mind when I read your post.

1. What is the current draw of the spud trucks?

2. What can they handle for a load?

  I have seen the little power trucks peel the teeth from the gears when over loaded with either weight or a heavy train.

 I have a vintage open frame steamer that I tuned up with replacing the magnet with super magnets. It brought the amp draw from 1.2 amps to under a 1/2 amp. It runs very good for a fifty three year old loco. When I have the extra $$ I will replace the non sound decoder with a Loksound micro.

     Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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  • From: S.E. Adirondacks, NY
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Posted by modelmaker51 on Tuesday, June 5, 2012 1:43 PM

Since Mr Sagami (maker of the NWSL motors) retired a couple of years ago, NWSL has designed all new motors and spud drives, they are now called Stanton motors and drives and are excellent. However, the new spud trucks are quite expensive $80.00 retail per truck, so $160 per loco. They are wired in parallel, not as separate engines for DC or DCC operation. As separate engines you would only have 4-wheel pickup, in parallel you douple the pickup and reliabillity.

I'm inclined to agree with the others, replace the old motor with a new can motor. What is the locomotive specifically? There may be other options, such as adapting a modern plastic loco's drive and trucks to the brass chassis, we do it all the time. Or as already has been mentioned get a hold of NWSL, he will certainly give you solid advice.

Jay 

C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1 

Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums 

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Posted by spike64 on Monday, June 18, 2012 10:56 PM

Sorry Gent's, I guess when a person is too close to a situation the obvious is

not explained.  In actuality my feeling is the power truck and the driven truck are both at the end of useful life stage.  This is why the desire to use Spud trucks.  Thanks again for each suggestion and opinion.

 

Spike64---Russ 

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Posted by Hergy on Thursday, June 21, 2012 1:19 PM

Specifically, what engine do you have. Who is the maker? I custom painted brass for over 12 years and have had just about everything under the sun apart. I have also remotored and/or regeared around 50 brass locos. If the power trucks are of the age that have the old style gear towers with the exposed gears, they are generally  awful. The original ALCO brand Locos were pretty good to look at, but sounded like coffee grinders.  Every once in a while you might luck out and get one that actually runs fairly decently. If so, definitely replace the motor with a can.

  • Member since
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  • From: Colorful Colorado
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Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, June 22, 2012 10:50 PM

spike64

I have a vintage Japanese made engine, powered by a Pittman open frame motor.  To make a long story short, my plan is to replace the complete drive system with two NWSL spud trucks.  My question, do I treat

the two individual  power trucks as two separate engines and then mu so this can be run by dcc?

I would appreciate some guidance as to what is the best way to approach this.

A SPUD powered decoder conversion was one of my very first decoder conversions.  At the time the reason for the SPUDs were that the decoders were so large (about the size of Rhode Island) that  I needed lots of the space in the loco just for it.  The SPUDs do have can motors in them so the current is low.   I think current was less than 500 ma. for both.   I connected both the SPUDs to the single decoder.   I also loaded the rest of the loco shell with lead.  I was never able to find the "stall" current on the SPUDs because I could not get them to stall.  It would have taken a block of lead.

As I recall the hardest part was opening the SPUD to isolate the track power from the motor.   I think I used the existing wires for the track power and added new wires for the motor.    

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  • From: Colorful Colorado
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Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, June 22, 2012 11:10 PM

Second Thought.    Now that I think about it.... I also did a  SPUD conversion that was an F7AB set with three SPUDS.  Both trucks in the B unit and the rear in the A unit.   I connected all three SPUDs to a single decoder.   This configuration didn't last long because I found one of the SPUDs was turning at a different speed than the other two and fighting against each other instead of pulling together.  I moved the two that matched onto one unit, and never got back to fix the third.   The A unit is still a dummy that gets pushed around by the B unit. 

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Posted by gregc on Saturday, June 23, 2012 9:08 PM

locoi1sa
I have a vintage open frame steamer that I tuned up with replacing the magnet with super magnets. It brought the amp draw from 1.2 amps to under a 1/2 amp. It runs very good for a fifty three year old loco. When I have the extra $$ I will replace the non sound decoder with a Loksound micro.

have you seen these links

http://www.proto87.com/model-railroad-motor-upgrade.html

http://www.micromark.com/super-magnets-20-pieces,9966.html

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by locoi1sa on Sunday, June 24, 2012 4:25 PM

Greg.

 Way ahead of you. In fact I just finished installing the Loksound Select decoder in it. I bought my magnets from K&J. http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B842  Now this little 2-6-0 runs, looks and sounds great. http://s1081.photobucket.com/albums/j348/locoi1sa/F3c%202-6-0/

       Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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  • From: S.E. Adirondacks, NY
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Posted by modelmaker51 on Sunday, June 24, 2012 11:22 PM

It sure would help if we knew what loco we're talking about. There's a lot of experience on this board, so there's no need to re-invent the wheel.

Jay 

C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1 

Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums 

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Posted by spike64 on Saturday, December 22, 2012 10:52 AM

Gents, I'm still pondering my options, however on fairly sound authority, the engine is said to be

Tenshodo GP7.  I like the super magnet suggestion.  At this point I'm waiting for a reply from NWSL.

Project may stall , costs vs. funds.

Quote: "I started with nothing and still have most of it left."

Spike64

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Posted by locoi1sa on Sunday, December 23, 2012 10:33 AM

Spike.

 I ordered enough magnets for at least 3 motors from K&J magnets and it was only about $12 with shipping. My open frame motors run great and the torque output from them is better than a can of comparable size.

         Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: SE Minnesota
  • 6,847 posts
Posted by jrbernier on Sunday, December 23, 2012 11:29 AM

Tenshodo GP7 - First 'narrow' hood GP that I am aware of - Was in rather short production by PFM.

Good Points

  • The basic drive is bullet-proof.  A little noisy, but not too bad.

Bad Points

  • The Pittman 'clone' motor is the weak point.  Lots of current draw, and the magnet loses strength over time.  A 're-motor' is a good option.
  • The electrical pick-up.  Typical early design - pick up off of the right front truck, return off of the rear left truck - Not all wheel electrical pick up.  Not a good candidate for DCC/Sound decoders.
  • Truck wheel base - way too short - Tenshodo used the FT wheel base and it shows - The trucks are too far inboard when viewed.

  Your idea of using NWSL 'Stanton' drives is good - You will need to adjust the truck mounting to fix that too short overall wheel base.  The problem is that you are sinking a lot of money/work into a model that really only has sentimental value.  If you are looking for a good running GP7 - Atlas, P2K, and Atherarn Genesis may be far better for accuracy/detail/running qualities.

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, December 23, 2012 7:47 PM

 Easier option than remotoring - super magnets. You can get them lots of places, but Micro Mark sells a set for motor magnet replacement - these magnets repalce old weak and tired magnets and result in a smoother, cooler running motor that often draws far less current than the original one did. If the rest of the drive is good, there's no reason to mess with it.

            --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
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Posted by spike64 on Wednesday, December 26, 2012 5:59 PM

jrbernier

Tenshodo GP7 - First 'narrow' hood GP that I am aware of - Was in rather short production by PFM.

Good Points

  • The basic drive is bullet-proof.  A little noisy, but not too bad.

Bad Points

  • The Pittman 'clone' motor is the weak point.  Lots of current draw, and the magnet loses strength over time.  A 're-motor' is a good option.
  • The electrical pick-up.  Typical early design - pick up off of the right front truck, return off of the rear left truck - Not all wheel electrical pick up.  Not a good candidate for DCC/Sound decoders.
  • Truck wheel base - way too short - Tenshodo used the FT wheel base and it shows - The trucks are too far inboard when viewed.

  Your idea of using NWSL 'Stanton' drives is good - You will need to adjust the truck mounting to fix that too short overall wheel base.  The problem is that you are sinking a lot of money/work into a model that really only has sentimental value.  If you are looking for a good running GP7 - Atlas, P2K, and Atherarn Genesis may be far better for accuracy/detail/running qualities.

Jim

Thank you for the sage advice, helped me realize exactly "a lot of time and money for ...".  I have the P2K
GP7 and  your right; looks great, runs well, not brass, but two out of three is good.
 
Russ

Tags: Brass

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