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Soldering feeder wires

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  • Member since
    February 2012
  • 2 posts
Posted by GenSou on Saturday, February 25, 2012 12:36 PM

Regarding maintenance of soldering iron tips, there is a type of tip - if you can find it - which is plated with a thin layer of iron (the metal).  Solder erodes copper.  By using the plated tip, you prevent this erosion.  One thing about the plated tip, however.  NEVER, EVER use an abrasive to clean it!  The surface will always have a somewhat dull look  This is normal, and the iron will work just fine.  Use the wet sponge technique to clean it.  I used used an soldering iron with a plated tip for years in my work.  I had no problems making good joints on electronic controls which were sibjected to severe vibration mounted to commercial sewing machines.

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Posted by Redore on Thursday, February 23, 2012 10:26 PM

First, use solid copper wire for the feeder.  Bend the end intoa "hook" so that it naturally nestles up to the rail web.  It should make contact without soldering first.  Clean iron, solder, and metal are critical.

I like to use alligator clips on each side of the joint to provide a heat sink and keep the ties from melting.

Then I go in with an 80 watt iron with a chisel point.  I lay the point on the top of the rail and then allow the rail to melt the resin core fluxed solder.  In a few seconds I have a good joint.

For soldering joiners, same thing.  Heat both rails with the iron.  When the rail is hot enough the solder will wick right into the joiner, sort of like sweat soldering copper pipe.

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Wednesday, February 22, 2012 10:39 AM

The melting point of your solder plus a little bit to heat up your work to the melting point of your solder.

If you were to make say a signal tower out of brass welding rods, then you would want to consider different temperatures. For your first joints you would choose a solder with a very high melting point, and then you would use lower melting points to attach the various details to the work.

LIONS did not do that of course, having only one soldering iron and one roll of solder. It made the work more difficult, but not impossible. You just attach heat sinks between what you are working on and what is already finished.

LIONS might not be the best solderers in the house, but at least they do pick up the soldering iron at the correct end, and that is a good start.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, February 21, 2012 9:24 PM

 Well, since we're not doing super precision stuff here, within a reasonable range works Too low is not good, too high is not good, however there are some guidelines int he instructions. For my older non-digital one the knob is marked with varous coros, in the green area is where I normally use it, at the higher end of the green for heavier stuff liek track and at the lower end of the green for fine wire liek decoders. All the way down at the lowest if it will sit for a while between joints, and also to shrink heat shrink without melting it.

                        --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by skagitrailbird on Tuesday, February 21, 2012 9:18 PM

Rinker,

I wish I had known about the Xytronics units when I bought my Weller, although the Weller has served me well for several years.  So If I got one now, how would I know at what temperature to set it?  Or is it as simple as starting low and increasint it gradually until the solder one is using melts?

Roger Johnson
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Posted by farrellaa on Sunday, February 19, 2012 2:45 PM

I also use a Xytronic, model 369, which I have had for about a year now and it has changed my approach to soldering. I am not nervous about soldering small wires like on decoders, or wires to the track. Just keeping the tip 'tinned' with a very thin coating of solder and the temperature just hot enough makes for easy soldering and great solder joints. I am giving my old Radio Shack dual temp iron away.  Don't waste your money on these inexpensive models. You will be doing a lot of soldering in model railroading, so get a good one and you won't be sorry.

    -Bob

http://www.xytronic-usa.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=17

Life is what happens while you are making other plans!

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Sunday, February 19, 2012 2:44 PM

SUPERGRINGO
I am new to soldering layouts for DCC, I am wondering how far apart do the feeder wires have to be from each other, and do I need to isolate each section of track that has feeder wires?

No isolation.  The whole point of adding the feeders is to make the electrical less isolated.     One only wants to start thinking about isolation and blocks when there is the need for more power and DCC boosters, or power districts for signalling or some such thing.

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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, February 19, 2012 2:11 PM

 Weller used to be THE name in soldering tools - back when they were made in my home town, byt he man who actually invented the electric soldering gun. They still make good stuff, but usually at  premium price. The modelmentioned is attractively priced, however it is NOT a temperature controled system. Notice the base plugs intot he wall, and the iron plugs into the base - it's essentially a dimmer switch to control the power, so it can be set for lower wattage but it does not cycle on and off. It's more versatile than a single wattacg iron, but for a real temperature controlled unit it will cost a bit more. A lot more for a Weller branded one, but you don;t have to spend a fortune.

 The one I have, which is truly temperature controlled, is a Xytronics 379: http://www.xytronic-usa.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=23

This was under $50 from Howard Electronics, although Howard no longer has this model, and offers the 379-LF (lead free, and also has a digital temp setting instead of the knob): http://www.howardelectronics.com/xytronic/lf369D.html

and costs $55.

Both have the nicest stand I've ever used, it's got a heavy base so there's no danger of tipping, and they have the copper sponge cleaner I mentioned. And conveninet holes along the back to store extra tips. I think it was Crandell here recommended this model to me, and in all my years of building electronics I don't knwo why I didn;t buy one sooner. I guess because all I ever saw were the $100+ Weller models. It used to be that I would almost hvae to buy a new ti for each new project, that's now a thing of the past. There are some tools that make life easier but aren't always essential - this is one that IS essential.

 Now, buyign a fancy solderign tool will not make you an instant expert at soldering, any more than goign out and buying $5000 worth of camera equipment will make you an instant expert photographer. In fct it's probably because I learned using the harder to use equipment that I can work better with the nicer tool now. Eliminate the main enemy of tip corrosion though and you should have an easier time of it.

                     --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by skagitrailbird on Sunday, February 19, 2012 12:23 PM

Lion,

I have used a Weller WLC100 for several years and find it very satisfactory.  Tips of many sizes and shapes are available.  Here is a link at Sears but they are available from many vendors.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00954054000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

The down side is that they run on electricity, not jungle juice. Smile

Roger Johnson
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Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, February 19, 2012 11:54 AM

LION suspected as much.A $20 iron at Walmart (or Runnings) then needs $10 in tips every few months.

LION will put a better iron on his shopping list, maybe this summer while I am on vacation. Or maybe I can try to talk the Abbot in to that before then. Any recommendations on brand etc.?

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, February 19, 2012 10:49 AM

 Therein lies the problem of a basic solderign iron. SOlong as power is applied, it keeps getting hotter until the ability of the element to supply heat is baanced by the heat escaping intot he air. This causes the tip to be much hotter than required for soldering, and causes it to oxidize faster.

 A temperature contolled soldering station (which doesn;t have to be expensive - mine was $50) instead keeps the tip at a set temperature, and turns the power on and off to maintain it. The tip doesn't overheat, and stays at the proper temperature all the time. You cna even turn it down to shrink heat shrink without it melting all over the sodlerign iron. As such, though I purchased spare tips at the time, I'm still on the original one nearly 5 years later, and it's still nice and shiny and not pitted or corroded.

                              --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
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  • From: North Dakota
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Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, February 19, 2012 10:36 AM

The LION tends to burn up a lot of soldering tips. Him must need better tips or a better iron or both.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

  • Member since
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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, February 19, 2012 10:35 AM

Hamltnblue

All good points.  Also make sure your iron is hot enough.  Use at least a 30 watt iron.

 Most important thing right here! Make sure the tip is clean dna bright and shiny. You cna get a little jar of tip tinner at Radio Shack and other places. And instead of a wet sponge, look for a copper scrubber (NOT steel - these are soft copper meant for cleaning copper pans, so it's a softer metal to avoid scratches) at the supermarket or kitchen store.

 If the tip of the iron is not clean and shiny, it will take longer to transfer enough heat to meltht he solder. And holding the iron on too long will melt the palstic ties. So you'll compensate and not hold the iron on long enough to get the proper heat for a good joint, leaving ou with wires that will come right off with the slightest pressure. A clean bright iron tip will rapidly transfer heat to the contact point, getting it hot enough for a good joint before the heat even has time to travel to the nearest tie and melt anything. This is the key to effective quality soldering.

                     --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Hamltnblue on Sunday, February 19, 2012 9:30 AM

All good points.  Also make sure your iron is hot enough.  Use at least a 30 watt iron.

Springfield PA

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Posted by SUPERGRINGO on Saturday, February 18, 2012 6:35 AM

Thank you for the useful advice. I will check out that website to!  :)

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Posted by modelmaker51 on Saturday, February 18, 2012 1:00 AM

It is also essential to have a clean shiny tip on you're iron. If it's black, it will never transfer enough heat to the join. Practice, practice, Practice on some scrap track.

Jay 

C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1 

Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums 

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Posted by selector on Friday, February 17, 2012 1:11 PM

Failed solder joints look dull, and they can often be tugged apart.  Proper solders look very smooth and shiny, and you can't budge the connection...it is solid...you'll break the wire first or pull the rails out of the plastic spike heads.

I do apply solder to the tip of the iron mostly so that it does not oxidize while it is hot.  If I am in a tight spot, having the solder already coating the tip in liquid form also frees up space.  I apply paste around the surface of the tip of the wire to be applied to the rail, and swipe the rail webbing at the appropriate spot as well.  Then, touching the rail web with the wire tip, I dart in with the hot tip and touch the wire end.  Within a second I hear the sizzling and the vaporizing flux draws the bead of solder already on the tip around the wire and against the web.   Two seconds or less and the  solder is done.  However, my usual practice is to touch the very fine solder wire (with flux enclosed inside the wire) to the tip of the feeder and let the solder flow that way when it liquifies.  Normally there is little sense to having much more than a thin coating of solder on the tip of the iron, so let the tip do its work with the solder applied directly to the copper feeder.

Crandell

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Posted by simon1966 on Friday, February 17, 2012 7:03 AM

Hi Marcos

The subject of feeder spacing comes up a lot, a search of the DCC section will yield many hits.   There is not hard and fast rule on this and you will get many opinions. 

Consider the purpose of having a power bus and feeders in the first place.  The reason-for-being is to improve the integrity of the electrical current flow and the integrity of the DCC command signals all around the layout.  

To that end, I wire my feeders to ensure that I do not rely on a press fit connection, such as a rail joiner at any point on the track work.   So, if I have 3 sections of 3' flex track connected via soldered rail joiners on pair of feeders will suffice.  I don't like to solder the rail joiners on my switches, so each switch gets feeders.  As a result, some parts of the layout have feeders as much as 6' apart, others much closer, just a few inches where there is complex switch arrangements.  In all cases, every single piece of track has either soldered feeders, or is soldered to an adjacent track section that has soldered feeders.  A simple rule like "solder feeders every 3 feet" more than likely will result in sections reliant on press fit rail joiners.

You do not have to isolate each section.  Where you isolate track sections is dependent on the design of your wiring, if you are going to have separate power blocks? perhaps sections isolated for block detection for signalling?, also some switch brands, such as Peco require isolation as well.   Take a look at the excellent www.wiringfordcc.com  it has a lot of good advice.

 

 

Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum

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Posted by SUPERGRINGO on Friday, February 17, 2012 6:43 AM

Hello there,

 

I am new to soldering layouts for DCC, I am wondering how far apart do the feeder wires have to be from each other, and do I need to isolate each section of track that has feeder wires?

 

 Marcos

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Friday, February 17, 2012 3:22 AM

Make sure the rail is clean and free of foreign material - paint, `weathering' and die lubricant will all prevent solder from adhering.

Add a little rosin paste or liquid flux.  The flux in rosin core solder is often too little, too late.

Use electrical-electronic solder, 60/40 (or 63/37 if you can find it.)  50/50 is for plumbing.

Make sure nothing will move during the soldering process.

Make sure your soldering tool is hot BEFORE you touch it to rail and wire.  Add solder last.

A good solder joint is smooth.  If it has a crackle finish, a so-called `cold' joint, it WILL fail.  The solution is to reheat.  Melt the solder, don't move anything until the solder is set.

A good solder joint will last for decades.  I have some, under both mechanical and electrical stress, that have been in service for thirty-two years.  They are more likely to last thirty more years than I am...

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

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Posted by billslake on Thursday, February 16, 2012 10:16 PM

1.  Make sure you're applying flux to both the wire and the rail.

2.  A common mistake is to melt the solder directly with the iron or soldering gun.  You should touch the iron to the wire and rail . . . and also touch the solder to the wire and the rail . . . but never touch the iron to the solder.  When the wire and rail get hot enough, the solder will melt and flow.  That should make a good clean and strong connection.

As a ham radio operator, I do a lot of soldering . . . and try to never let my iron touch the solder.  None of the connections I've done in this way have ever failed . . . including soldered antenna wires 50 feet up for twenty years.

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Posted by wp8thsub on Thursday, February 16, 2012 8:33 PM

We need some more information... Are you using "pre-weathered rail?"  Are you cleaning the feeder location sufficiently before soldering with the tip of a file or other tool?  Are you using rosin core solder and/or additional flux?  What's the condition of your soldering iron tip?  There are a bunch of potential reasons your joints arent "taking."

Rob Spangler

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Soldering feeder wires
Posted by James Buss on Thursday, February 16, 2012 8:24 PM

When I try to solder feeder wires to my track, sometimes it sticks and sometimes it doesn't. Any clues?

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