USD250 Budget To Start DCC - Which System??

[TankedEngine]

Starting into DCC for 1st time, in ON30 scale, & have USD250 budget & following parameters.

Would appreciate input to help filter the systems available.

System Parameters:

Layout of about 50  linear feet. Logging theme, Shays, Heisler derivatives etc.

Wish to run max 4 locos concurrently & no more than a couple of Locos in a consist.

Single operator.

Wireless handset

Able to pgm on the layout.

Able to hook up to PC to pgm CV's 

Initial options seem to be Digitrax Zephyr, NCE , Bachmann Dynamis 36505, Lenz??

With add ons??

Thank you

[simon1966]

Taking Digitrax as an example, the Zephyr Xtra will set you back $179.00   To go wireless with this system then you would need a UR92 ($120) and a throttle say a UT4D ($107.00) so $406.00 before shipping and possibly tax. 

If you want to go wireless using the entry level NCE system, the PowerCab you are looking at the system itself $156  a Smartbooster (needed if you go radio) $127  the radio base station $128 and the cost of converting the PowerCab throttle to radio, or a separate radio throttle $90 for the upgrade, so a total of around $500.

So that is what the entry level systems cost when upgraded.

The radio sets of the higher level systems from these will cost a bit more than that.

The Bachmann set will cost you less than this, but be aware that it is IR, not radio, so while wireless is a line of sight device.  It would be the only one to fit your budget.

[TankedEngine]

Thank you Simon, appreciate the data. Very helpful.

Backing off the Wireless requirement for a moment. - Do you know if any of the stock standard Zephyr Xtra, NCE Power Cab or Dynamis 36505 CANNOT do the following out of the box, [ie, without add ons]

- Read CV's from decoders??

 - Program a CV on the layout without needing to know the actual numbers for say, Start Voltage?

 - Program a Sound Decoder so that you can say,  reduce the loudness of the horn??

Thank you

 

[simon1966]

I don't know the Dynamis at all, so someone else would have to confirm this.  Certainly the Zephyr and PowerCab can read CV's, program on the main and adjust sound decoder settings.  However, you should realize that some of this is determined by the decoder in question.   For example I have an MRC sound decoder that I hate, and find that the sound adjustment is very poor ranging from very loud to extremely loud, and that there is no individual sound adjustment.   This is a function of the decoder not the DCC system.   I should add that a very useful add-on to consider is a PC interface for the DCC system so that you can use the Free Decoder Pro software on a surplus PC.  I find it to be invaluable for the more complex programming of sound decoders.

I have a Locobuffer connected to my Zephyr and program on the main from an ancient Windows 2000 PC.  I also have a Digitrax PR3 at my desk so I can program from my office PC as well.   NCE makes a PC interface for the PowerCab also.  The good news is that Decoder Pro works just fine on what would be considered an obsolete PC by today's standards.

[TankedEngine]

Thanks Simon

I read a review of the Dynamis from 2008 & at that stage it couldn't do the CV things I listed.

However, advertising I have seen recently says "programming on the main',  & 'full CV programming'

So I am scratching my head at $110 ex EB for the Dynamis vs the higher cost of the Zephyr & NCE & trying to figure if it is a bargain or is it missing something in its functionality that causes it to be priced down there?

I am not looking for the cheapest, just which one will best give me what I want from a DCC set.

Cross comparing the Dynamis, Zephyr  &  NCE is a bit tricky. I haven't been able to find  an up to date spec comparison chart for those 3 yet, & in various other forums, Dynamis seems to generate a bit of heat, particularly from Digitrax  adherents.

TE

[gandydancer19]

The two best systems are either NCE or Digitrax.  If you want something that will last, is expandable, and has a record of good support, I think you should stay with either of those two.

There is a constant argument over which of those two systems is best.  In my opinion, you need to be able to read and study the manual for Digitrax, but NCE is more intuitive.  I am biased because I have NCE.

To actually pick either one of those systems, you should try and get some hands-on time with both.

.

[TankedEngine]

Thank you Elmer

In trying to make a choice, the reality is that it would be rare to find anyone who has experience on all 3 systems.

Perhaps a hobby Store/DCC specialist, but they tend to not want to recommend a particular system over others, probably for commercial relationship reasons, & will use the 'Comparison Chart' to let the customer decide. That helps if the systems you are trying to compare are ones they have compared.

Unfortunately my LHS went under awhile ago, getting time on different hand sets is not easy & so  one reverts to the Internet to search forums & for reviews. As well as try & get to grips with the jargon & technology.

I am curious as to why you place Dynamis 3rd of the 3 under discussion?

 

TE

[gandydancer19]

TankedEngine

I am curious as to why you place Dynamis 3rd of the 3 under discussion?

TE

Because Digitrax and NCE are the most popular systems.

Out of the 20 or so model railroaders that I know, only one has a Dynamis.  Everyone else has either Digitrax or NCE.  Our club has Digitrax, and so far, three of our members who have purchased a Digitrax systems have since sold them and went with NCE for their home layouts.  This has to do mainly with the simplicity of decoder programming with the NCE system, but also with the simplicity of consisting locomotives.

Since you have no local Hobby Shop in your area, download the manuals and read them.  That should help you decide.

[skagitrailbird]

I will throw my support behind the Digitrax or NCE recommendation for all the reasons Elmer listed.  Personnally I chose NCE because its operation and programming is much more intuitive and I liked the feel of the ProCab throttle in my hand much better than the Digitrax throttles.

But, if you have one or more DCC model railroading friends nearby, choose the one they have.  They will be your teachers and teck support when you need it...and you will with whatever system you choose.

Good luck!

[simon1966]

Both NCE and Digitrax are specialist DCC manufacturers making their systems in the US.   The Bachmann Dynamis was designed for them by a 3rd party, ESU in Germany to be precise.  The previous Bachmann system was designed for them by Lenz.  (If you follow this link you will see the Ecos system and you can clearly see the family resemblance http://www.esu.eu/en/products/digitale-steuerung/ecos-50200-dcc-system/ecos-50200-dcc-system/)

That is not to say that there is anything fundamentally wrong with the Dynamis, in fact I would say it is very likely well made, and in many ways quite forward thinking in its user interface.  My only real concern would be one of support both now and in the future.   What happens if Bachmann no longer has a relationship with ESU?

As you probably gathered from my post above I am a Digitrax user and a firm proponent of the PC interface and the programming via decoder pro.  Frankly, I don't remember the last time I did anything but the most basic programming with the throttle, it is completely redundant as the value of being able to save all my settings on the PC is invaluable. 

Making an breaking a consist is trivial on a Digitrax throttle, especially a DT400 series, it is really nice to have the dual knob control and to run the two locos up to each other under independent control and then make the consist and drive off.  My kids do it all the time and never have to look at the manuals.

If I were in your shoes I would actually be intrigued by the Dynamis as I think it has a lot going for it, but I probably would not choose it.  You won't regret going with either NCE or Digitrax as both are well made and very well supported.  In my case I could not choose the PowerCab as it simply can not be expanded logically to meet my personal needs (radio, PC interface and 4 operators at one time) but this is my own personal limitation and not one that applies to you.

[TankedEngine]

Gentlemen

After a slow start we are starting to tease out some factors that will influence my decision.

And it has not degenerated into a brawl!

I have manuals to read & things to ponder.

Thank you all for your inputs.

TE

 

[TankedEngine]

Actually, if I may just throw 1 more query in at this stage?

What item would be required & what would be the cost to put in place a PC interface for the Zephyr Xtra & NCE PowerCab systems??

Thank you

TE

 

[simon1966]

With the Zephyr you have 2 choices  (one of the things about Loconet is that Digitrax shares it and so other companies have developed things that can connect to it)

http://www.rr-cirkits.com/locobuffer-usb/LB-usb-flyer.pdf  the Locobuffer USB street price about $60

or the Digitrax made PR3 $68  http://www.litchfieldstation.com/xcart/product.php?productid=999003028&cat=45&page=1

I actually have one of each, the locobuffer USB predecessor on the layout and the PR3 at my desk.  Both work just fine.  I got the PR3 as it can be used totally stand alone and also has the capability of programming new sounds into Digitrax sound decoders (something I have done once!)

 

NCE Powercab http://www.litchfieldstation.com/xcart/product.php?productid=524027&cat=45&page=1 $40

Note with the PowerCab, the PC interface takes one of your 2 throttle slots, so you can't then add another throttle to it unless you add the Smartbooster.  I don't think this is an issue for you however.

 

[Stevert]

TankedEngine

Actually, if I may just throw 1 more query in at this stage?

What item would be required & what would be the cost to put in place a PC interface for the Zephyr Xtra & NCE PowerCab systems??

Thank you

TE

In addition to what Simon mentioned about requiring a cab address, keep in mind that the NCE USB adapter has some other limitations that could affect you down the road.  Here's a good summary of those limitations.  Although it refers to JMRI, since they are device limitations they would still apply to any other software you chose to use.

[TankedEngine]

Thank you

It appears to be a comprehensive list of limitations.

How many of them also apply to the Digitrax Zephyr Xtra USB adapter , if any??

 

TE

[jwils1]

TE,

I would tend to agree with everything Simon and others have said about Digitrax and NCE.  I have used both on my layout, as well as MRC and Lenz.  My personal preference is Digitrax as its features just suit me better, especially their wireless radio system.

I did try using the Digitrax infra-red system but just didn't like it as I frequently lost control of my locos.  The need for line-of-sight connectivity was a bit awkward for me.  For that reason I personally would be wary of Dynamis.

I will throw another line of thought into this.  If I was starting over, and wireless was really important to me, and budget a concern, I would not hesitate to go with MRC wireless.  In many ways this is a terrific system and I've seen it priced as low as $339.00.

The reason I don't have MRC now is primarily for something Simon has mentioned, mainly the desire to use Decoder Pro for programming.  This is not possible with the MRC computer interface.  However, considering budget and a strong desire for wireless, there are work arounds that might be satisfactory.

MRC wireless is really easy to use, gives you all the power you will probably ever need, has a dedicated programming key for on-the-main quick, easy programming on the fly, and a nice loco recall system for switching back and forth between locos.  It's just a nicely arranged, easy to use hand-held throttle.  One drawback for some is the lack of back-lighting on an otherwise excellent display.

Forgive me for throwing in this MRC option if it doesn't suit you but I wanted to make sure you were aware of it.

[TankedEngine]

Thank you for throwing MRC in.

I will check it out.

TE

[rrinker]

TankedEngine

Thank you

It appears to be a comprehensive list of limitations.

How many of them also apply to the Digitrax Zephyr Xtra USB adapter , if any??

 

TE

 There are no limitations witht eh Digitrax USB interface, other than the total power output of the Zephyr Xtra vs the bigger 5 and 8 amp systems. There are no cab addresses, and unless you are runnign a train with a computer throttle through JMRI it doesn't even count as one of the 20 throttle limit for the Zephyr.

 In fact, it could possibly gain features - prior to the Zephyr Xtra there was the Zephyr, which out of the box can only access F0-F8. You can plus in a Digitrax throttle like the DT402 and gain access to F0-F28, or you can use the computer interface and throttles in JMRI to gain access to all functions. Not really an issue anymore since the Zephyr Xtra does F0-F29 in the box.  That's the peer to peer nature of Loconet, if you connect a device that adds some new feature you get that feature without the command station needing to be updated.

                             --Randy