I'm building a medium sized layout, about 20' by 15'. I am wondering which DCC system I should rig up, MRC, NCE, Digitrax..? What is the main difference between these three systems? My father and I had a layout back when I was younger, but that was just a DC system. What is the better system for a beginner? I would have to convert all my 90's locos to DCC. Which decoders should I buy? I'm not too concerned about running sound, I just want to be able to control locos individually.
Thank You.
What 'Brand' really has nothing to do with which is better. All three brands are good. What you need to consider are:
I have lots of older engines that I will never convert - I have one Athearn BB engine that I converted. I have not converted any of my brass, and most of my engines are Atlas/Kato/P2K or Athearn 'RTR' that have some kind of DCC decoder socket. I have 'hard wired' about a dozen engines. I have used Digitrax, NCE, Lenz, TCS, and Soundtraxx decoders with no big issues. Most older Athearn engines really are not worth the time to upgrade/add DCC.
Myself, I have a Digitrax DCS100 'Super Chief' system and it has worked great for the past 10+ years. One thing that is important to me is easy programming - I use Decoder Pro(free) on an old PC to program my engines - You need to have a computer interface on the system you choose if you are looking for ease of programming.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Welcome
This question has been asked many many times. The only one that can answer your best system question is yourself. There are too many questions that need to be answered here. Walk around? wireless? tethered? amp power needed? route control? There is no best system out there. What works good for someone will probably be too much or too little for another. Since all the systems do basically the same thing it is the throttle you hold in your hand that is the important consideration. How it feels in your hand and the layout and feel of the buttons and knobs to you is the important thing. If you can, go to train shows with modular groups and look and ask them to hold a throttle or even a DCC hobby shop that has different systems to try.
Don't forget about Lenz. They make a great system also. CVP is another.
As for decoders. I prefer to go with Train Control Systems. TCS makes great decoders with excellent motor and lighting control. Lenz and Loksound would be my next choice for motor control.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
I plan on modeling the Union Pacific coal lines in Wyoming. So I will be running at least two trains simultaneously with 3 or 4 locos each. Plus I want to be able to do yard work at the same time. I have done some research (hobby stores, train shows, etc.) and I have come to like the MRC Prodigy Advance^2. I like the feel and layout of the controller. Plus, they have the computer interface you can run as well.
As far as locos, I meant that I have about 12 locos from the 1990's. Is there a particular reason why you never converted them? I know I want to at least convert my Kato and Rivarossi locos, but I have a few of my athearn locos that I would like to convert. Eventually I will be getting new locos, like the Kato Dash-9 and AC4400, which I am guessing they would be DCC ready. So from what I understand I will just need the 'drop-in' decoders, correct?
Is it necessary to use the same brand decoder as your system, or can you mix and match?
I guess overall, I would like to have the capacity to run 15 locos simultaneously. So would 3.5 amps (MRC Prodigy Advance^2) be enough or would I need the 8 amp booster?
Thank you for your time.
MikeO/O McDermid TransportationOconto Falls, WI
Mike,
You are looking at having 12-15 engines 'active' at the same time, with at least 3 throttles. Figuring 'new' engines - about 14 to 1/3 amp each(no sound). The early Kato's can be converted quite easy with special 'drop in' decoders that replace the existing 'light board'. Rivarossi - Are you talking 'steam'? The old Rivarossi diesels are pretty grim - 3 pole motors and deep flanges. With DCC you really want 'all wheel' electrical pickup. Most new engines have a NMRA 8 pin or JST 9 pin plug/socket for the decoder to plug into. And you can mix/match brands of decoders.
As far as total power - 3.5 amps may do - 5 amps will more than handle your needs. I have 10 amps(5 amp command station and 5 amp booster) of power and usually have 6-8 DCC/Sound engines active - complete overkill.
Computer Interface - The MRC systems have one, but it will not work with Decoder Pro. It only works with MRC's own proprietary PC software.
Jim,
First of all, thank you for all your advice.
I have a 4-8-8-4 (Big Boy) steam from Rivarossi that I would like to convert.
So what is the Decoder Pro? Is it basically just a program for setting up your locos? Or is it an actual interface for controlling your system? Sorry, this is very new to me.
So if you were to start all over again, which system would you get? Would you stay with Digitrax sys, or go another direction?
Mike
and what is that?
Hi Mike,
We use MRC Prod as a controler they great, up to a doz low amp locos(we have up to 10 or 12 on 4 or5 hand sets on a 16 X8 exhibition laout that has a lot of switching, so I'd say you could do with the booster. We like the Prod because it has both knob and button use( there's always one awkward sod).
Unless your locos are DCC ready with a socket I'd do power checks to see what Amps they pull, if your big en has a cann motor on prob, if it ain't, look out it could be well over the 1 amp rating of most chips. Most sound chips will do, with some loco spersific plug and plays that are great, it's speaker that can be a problem although Kato and Athern are starting to see sence and casting cones in tanks.
I had a it of bother trying to program with MRC's and was told about Decoder Pro, a USB interfaced setup that can be used to program and control a loco. Now I am low case dislectic and manuals drive me nuts, it took months to get me head round it but I'm starting to see the light it is a boon as fas as configering lashups with Blue-band locos.
Be in touch.
pick.
There have been numerous version of the Rivarossi Challenger over the years - some may have a DCC plug. If not, it will be a 'hard wire' job.
Decoder Pro is Java software program that allow one to program DCC models via their computer, and save the DCC configuration to the PC's hard drive. It also allows one to monitor everything on your DCC system. It even has fast clocks & throttles built in. You will need an 'interface' to attach it to your DCC system. For Digitrax, there are several available(around $70, IIRC). For NCE, there are several different interface as well. MRC has a computer interface option, but you can only use their own software - They will not release the source so Decoder Pro can add MRC to their list of supported systems. Decoder Pro is constantly updated with new decoders as they come out. Trying to program complex features like speed tables or flashing ditch lights is very easy with this tool.
Decoder Pro is available as a FREE download from the following:
http://jmri.sourceforge.net/
I did a little research on the Digitrax and Lenz systems. I was impressed by the Super Chief, plus right off the bat it comes with the 5 amp power pack. Plus from what you are telling me I can get the computer interface to make it easier to set up my loco's decoders with DecoderPro.
From what I understand I will need a programming track that I will need for two-way communication of the decoder and the controller. So is the DecoderPro interface a program that makes the whole process just that much easier to link up all my locos to the system?
Thank you,
I dont run DCC as of yet but when i do or if ever it will be Digitrax.
Russell
Hey Dave,
So what are you saying is I will need to purchase the PS2012 20 Amp DCC Power Supply on top of the Duplex Equipped 8 Amp Super Chief Xtra Set?
I'm only asking because in the description of the starter set it states that it comes with the DCS200 Command Station 8 amp Booster. So that is not a booster that will power the entire layout?
Thanks,Mike
I guess overall, I would like to have the capacity to run 15 locos simultaneously.
I would pay to see that.
Seriously, on a 15 by 20 layout, even with four units on a train, only two would need to be powered. And unless you have a whole club of operators, two or three trains is all you can keep track of without a crash.
When I bought my Digitrax 5 years ago it came with everything I needed to get things going. I bought the Super Empire Builder Starter set. I would buy it again if I were to start all over again. The system is so easy to wire and understand. Digitrax has a great manual and customer support. I have all brands of decoders and have never had a problem programming any of them. I had a small shelf layout then and it took me about 15 minutes to get this out of the box and wired up. It was really that simple and very straight forward. I had a 10' Long x 2' wide switching / industry layout. I run all sound locos and I had 8-10 locos idling and switching. No problems. I don't know the technical electrical specs like amp draw and volts across the motors as I have never had a problem or needed to worry about it.
What can make things further confusing is that some manufacturers bundle the building blocks of the DCC system into the same box.
Power Supply...the thing that plugs into the wall and physically powers the entire system.
Command Station... the brains, receives signals from the throttles and delivers them out to decoders in the locomotives, does the programming etc.
Booster... directs the power and the command signals to the rails, as David points out, can be broken down into power districts. You can also have more than one booster working to provide coverage for a much bigger layout. Each booster can only be connected to its own isolated section of track.
Throttle... The human interface to the system, most systems will support many throttles, sometimes basic ones that can do little more than run a train, others sophisticated that can program and run all the command station features.
The Digitrax Zephyr and Xtra combine booster, command station and throttle into one box. The power supply plugs in as a separate item.
The Digitrax Chief and SEB combine the booster and command station with separate throttle.
The NCE PowerCab combines the booster and the command station into the hand held throttle with the power supply separate
and so on....
So remember that all these elements are present, but they may be bundled together.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Okay, so this is finally starting to make sense here. I have one more question though.
Digitrax offers the DB200+ which is s booster only and they also offer the DCS100/200 booster/command stations. Do I need to buy the booster command station combo or can I get by just getting the booster? Lets say I run my starter DCS100 for the main lines and then get another booster for the yard/staging area, does that have to be another command station/booster or can I use just the booster?
And with NCE ProCab, am I correct in saying that the command station is a part of the throttle and the boosters are just boosters themselves? So if I wanted to wire up the NCE ProCab I could just get another 5 amp booster along with the original 5 amp booster and I would be good to go?
Thanks, Mike
You must have a command station of some kind. In Digitrax world that can be the DCS50 or 51 (the Zephyr). Or the DCS100 (Chief) or the DB150 (SEB) all of which are combined command stations and boosters. If you want an extra booster the DB150 is the most economical way to go. When using a DB150 in conjunction with another command station if is configured as a booster only, disabling the command station feature as you can only have one command station in charge.
With NCE, the ProCab is just the throttle (The PowerCab is the combo throttle/command/booster) If you purchased a Power House Pro set, which includes the ProCab throttle and you wanted a 2nd booster NCE sells these for this expansion.
BigRigTrainGuy And with NCE ProCab, am I correct in saying that the command station is a part of the throttle and the boosters are just boosters themselves? So if I wanted to wire up the NCE ProCab I could just get another 5 amp booster along with the original 5 amp booster and I would be good to go?
With the NCE ProCab system you get a command station and a booster combined in one box. You also get a controller, or as others may call it a cab, throttle, or handset. The command station is the brains of the system. Commands that you input into your hand set are sent to the command station where a signal is entered on the rails and then sent on to the engine. The booster portion of the command station puts power on the rails, and also passes along the command station commands to the track. What you don't get with the system is the power supply (transformer) from which the booster gets its power.
I have experience with three different DCC systems. I have NCE at home, The club uses Lenz for the modules and club layout and I regularly operate on a home layout that uses Digitrax. My earlier advice about holding and trying a system throttle still stands. My NCE pro cab fits well in my hand. The buttons are easy to feel and push but I never got used to the thumb wheel so I use the buttons instead. I have 2 different Lenz throttles. One is all push buttons(LH 100) the other is a large knob with a toggle switch for direction(LH90). The LH90 is my favorite. I like the knob and is very comfortable in my hand with my big broken fingers. The LH100 is easy to use but is a little wider and I constantly have to shift it in my hand to reach the buttons on the left side and right side. My friends Digitrax system has small UT4 and UT4R throttles for us to use. While they are good throttles I regularly have trouble with the tiny buttons and the knobs movement is not smooth compared to the Lenz knob. Sometimes the UT4R throttles will shut off when running trains without changing speed or direction. If I am using it for switching and taking too long going over my switch list or car cards it will shut off to save battery power. He has had his system for almost 7 years now he still has trouble programing some locos. He needs a program track booster for his sound locos.
While all three systems are 5 amp and basically do every thing we ask of them it is the throttle you will interact with the most. Get one that fits naturally in your hand and make sure you can feel the buttons and know their function by feel so your not watching your throttle instead of your trains. I have gotten so used to the NCE pro cab and Lenz LH90 that I can operate functions and trains without even looking at the throttle. Having a comfortable throttle in your hand will make your system more enjoyable.
Here are a couple links to help you understand DCC systems a little better.
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/nswmn2/DCC.htm
http://www.ncedcc.com/
http://www.lenzusa.com/
http://www.digitrax.com/
http://www.tonystrains.com/tonystips/dccprimer/index.htm
http://www.mrdccu.com/
Hope this helps you decide on a system you will be happy with.
Thank you Pete for your advice.
I think, after all of my research, I am going to go with the NCE ProCab system. I like the look and feel of the throttle and I watched a few videos on how to program new locos and the NCE system is just more user friendly (compared to Digitrax).
Now with wiring, is it better to run the mainline off one 5 amp booster, and block the yard/staging area off on another booster or should I split the layout into two sections and run a booster on each? I am not quit sure on how much track I will be laying on the mainline, but is it true that I should have a 5 amp booster for every 50 feet of track? I know I should have a power point on the track every 4 feet (or each module), but in the big picture is 5 amps adequate for a looped mainline that is over 50 feet or do I need an additional booster?
I am asking because on the Digitrax website that is what they said in the DCS100 manual about the 50 feet sections.
It really is not the track length that matters but how much you want to run at once. Unless you are running a large number of power hungry trains you are not likely to need a booster.
BigRigTrainGuy I'm building a medium sized layout, about 20' by 15'. I am wondering which DCC system I should rig up, MRC, NCE, Digitrax..? What is the main difference between these three systems? My father and I had a layout back when I was younger, but that was just a DC system. What is the better system for a beginner? I would have to convert all my 90's locos to DCC. Which decoders should I buy? I'm not too concerned about running sound, I just want to be able to control locos individually. Thank You.
BigRig.
If I may?If you start out with 5amps that will run a lot of locos. For safety split the output into 4 separate isolated sections of track, with say a PM42. That divides the power by four and gives each section a circuit breaker. Each section has 1 1/4 amps and won't weld the loco to the track if it runs into a short.My NCE Power Cab (2amp) has an amp meter on the controller. I was testing a turnout for a short. There were 10 sound locos on the track idling with lights on,and one I was operating through the turnout. This combination pulling about 1/2 amp. When pulling a train each sound loco may pull around .25 to .30 amps up grades of, up to 2%. So a lot depends on what grades if any and how long the trains.
Read, read, learn, learn, enjoy.
Lee
Mike.
When we set up the modular layout for large shows we have over 200 feet of mainline running off of one booster. There have been over thirty locomotives running off that one booster. The third track also powers the secondary tracks that come off the third track. This is also on a separate booster. The first mainline is on an older Lenz 3 amp booster that has never shut down because of overloading. The clubs permanent layout is powered by 3 five amp boosters that are broken up into smaller sections with DCC specialties on guard and PSX breakers. There is also some short protection units from NCE in a couple sections. They have bulbs that light when a short happens.
The five amp booster power can be divided anyway you like. In the first link in the list there is another link that is called wiring for DCC click on that and read away.
BTW If you do decide on an NCE system may I suggest while in the construction phase of the layout, you can get the Power Cab starter system to familiarize yourself with DCC. When you finally purchase the NCE Powerhouse Pro system the Power Cab becomes a second throttle. Then you can move the Power Cabs panel and power supply to the workbench for decoder installations and programing. The Power Cab has more programing power to deal with those sound decoders that are hard to read.