I decided to start a new thread on this as I am venturing down the automated path with my layout.
I looked at several offerings and decided to go with CTI-Electronics equipment and software.
It was down to CTI and DCC-Bitswitch in the end. DCC Bitswitch is fully automated but does not use (and can not use) computer interface. This was a major deal since the layout is both mine and my dad's and he wanted to have one touch layout operation. Basically click a file on the PC and trains start running.
I will say that the gentlemen who owns DCC-Bitswitch was very friendly and knowledgeable. I think he offers a great product and if I was doing this just for me it is what I would use.
I based this on the fact that CTI offered a full package type deal which is known to work together. The software comparatively is inexpensive for what you get and user friendly. Tim at CTI has also been very responsive, friendly, and helpful.
Another bonus is the very lengthy but well laid out instruction manual. It is in a lesson format which takes you progressively through system setup to full automation including signalling etc.
I am just at the beginning stages and will present more updates as I go along. I mainly wanted some more reference points for those interested in automation. I could not find a lot and got only a little feedback when I originally started inquiring about it.
A little about my layout.
It is roughly 300 sqft and has 4 main lines. None of them intersect. I will be running 6 blocks on each line with 2 trains running per line. So a total of 8 trains will be running at once. All sound equipped (yes it's loud). It will be fun though programming different sounds at stops, crossings, and what not. I am using a Digitrax Super Chief system with two DCS boosters.
The CTI system uses a com port or com-usb adapter to communicate with it's equipment and the Locobuffer-USB to communicate with the Digitrax Loconet. It uses standard phone cables the same as Digitrax does. This is nice because you can buy them off th shelf if you so wish. I personally make my own. Commands are broken down very simply and use what I would call standard English and not some funky programming code.
It is also compatible with other DCC systems although my experience and knowledge of those is little. If I did not have Digitrax I would have NCE though and did originally research both of them 7 or so years ago when I started.
I hope to have an update within the next two weeks after getting the first mainline completed.
TexasSP, I was hoping you would get a response by now, as I have been a "lurker" for this type of topic for a while. Automation appears to be a real niche fringe for model railroaders, but it is EXACTLY what I envision for my lone wolf operation to get me the desired rail traffic. For a long while, I was sold on the CTI approach and had started looking into initial coding with help from the CTI Yahoo groups forum. After running across RR&Co. and their approach, I am more likely going to throw money at the problem and go that route. Having a dedicated software developer that can make my installation a little more plug and play is worth my money vs. my time for my needs. If I had more time and the inclination to perfect my CTI code, I would probably stick with them, but alas, family, work, etc. all figure in the limited time I have to model. I will follow your journey with great interest, and hope you will get more responses with actual experience in layout automation. Best of luck and HAVE FUN!! Joe
TexasSP,
I was hoping you would get a response by now, as I have been a "lurker" for this type of topic for a while. Automation appears to be a real niche fringe for model railroaders, but it is EXACTLY what I envision for my lone wolf operation to get me the desired rail traffic.
For a long while, I was sold on the CTI approach and had started looking into initial coding with help from the CTI Yahoo groups forum. After running across RR&Co. and their approach, I am more likely going to throw money at the problem and go that route. Having a dedicated software developer that can make my installation a little more plug and play is worth my money vs. my time for my needs. If I had more time and the inclination to perfect my CTI code, I would probably stick with them, but alas, family, work, etc. all figure in the limited time I have to model.
I will follow your journey with great interest, and hope you will get more responses with actual experience in layout automation.
Best of luck and HAVE FUN!!
Joe
Thanks for your response. I looked and looked and understand going with RR and company as I looked at them too. I just liked the all inclusive hardware/software package.
The programming for my needs is pretty straight forward but you may have different desires.
It's basically "when (blank) is (blank) then do (blank).
That is simplified but more can be added such as for it to do the following like stopping at a station so that:
When sensor 1 is open the train slows to stop, stops for 20 seconds then starts back up and leaves. Or when sensor 2 is open train slows to speed step 20 for 10 seconds the returns to standard speed.
I still am waiting on my com port to USB adapter but that is my fault since I haven't ordered it yet.
I do plan on having it up and running by mid September since I have family coming in from Australia and I want to be able to run trains and sit back and enjoy versus managing all of them.
Everything so far has been pretty simplistic and I think many people may shy away because it seems overwhelming. Hopefully with more vendors creating product for this more people will get into it.
The CTI stuff so far is nice product and the instructions are very well done. Tim the owner has also been extremely fast in responding to me in email even when it's me just verifying my thoughts through him.
Good luck with your endeavors as well. Please feel free to add your experience and posts here. I would love to have a good thread with several working options available for others who have interest.
I will do my best to get some video up when I finish the first mainline and have it running by itself.
TexasSP I do plan on having it up and running by mid September since I have family coming in from Australia and I want to be able to run trains and sit back and enjoy versus managing all of them.
I don't want to be a Nay Sayer, but I think mid September is wishful thinking if you are talking about two or more trains. Just running one train and making a station stop, OK, you will probably get there by then.
I am saying that from experience.
I had a CTI system to run trains in and out of staging and around the mainline of my last DC layout. I was working with three TB modules, a Signal module, and a DC Cab module. It does look easy, but you will run into things that just don't work the way that you expect them to. I even have some small programming experience in Basic. If the program had just used Basic, it would have been better in my opinion, because you would know what the statements were going to do. But the problem is (or was) that his TCL was a mix that looked close to Basic, but wasn't.
Anyway, I wish you the best and hope it works out.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
I dunno, it only took my friend about 2 weeks to get 4 trolleys running around his trolley loop without running into one another using RR&Co, and he's definitely not a 'computer guy'.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Yea, but with CTI you have to write your own code from scratch. It is not a point and click selectable building block type coding. You have to sit there and type the words out on each line, then type in the next line, use the correct sensor names, etc, and then test it. At least that's the way it was when I wrote the CTI code for my layout.
You are not writing code, only commands. You right a command for each sensor. Not really that big of a deal, it's all explained quite thoroughly in the manual.
I don't see how typing in "when sensor 19 is open, pause for 10 seconds then resume" is complicated. I know that's not exactly how it's written but it's very close.
There are several options and I only found two that included everything from one vendor. I wanted some guarantee the parts were made to work together.
I posted several times about this and got little feedback until now. Nothing is going to be perfect and I don't see why September is out of line. It's great you offered your opinion now, but no one had any for several months as I brought the subject up many times.
You're suggesting it would take me over a month to setup one stop, that's insane. There is nothing there that could possibly make it take that long.
I know I eventually want to move into the computer dispatching / controller realm. Right now, I work with JMRI for 'soft' throttles and decoder programming, but I've been looking at various computer control solutions - RR& Co as well as others whose names escape me right now. Of them all, I think I might go with the RR & Co's TrainController since it can completely make use of DigiTrax transponding and block detection, and it's interface are a lot easier to use. Granted, it IS a lot more expensive, but coming from the software field - the price is not terribly out of line for something so powerful.
Of course, it will depend on how complicated my layout is - as computer control doesn't make a lot of fiscal sense if I make a 4x8, other than for the tinkerer's factor.
With TrainController and the TrainTrackign feature you don't even need transponding, which can be a bear to set up and get working reliably and limits you to using only Digitrax or Soundtraxx decoders. Others may work, with the addition of a Digitrax TL-1 function decoder, but some brands of decoders totally swap the tiny transponding detection signal.
Transponding and Railcom are like the bad old days of command control when you had a relatively huge fixed voltage on the rails with a relatively tiny control signal superimposed. It was and still is easy to disrupt those tiny signals and break the whole thing. The beuaty of DCC is that the power waveform IS the command signal, the control codes aren;t going to get lost in noise with DCC.
I started on my CTI coding initially with the help of Brett Kennedy's sample code here :
http://users.tpg.com.au/bsken/
Found him through Yahoo Groups.
Granted he has a lot going on with his layout, probably more than most need, but it is easy to see the logic there. Users should quickly be able to pull out the functionality they need because it is sub-divided into blocks that can easily be tailored to fit whatever you are looking for. Still tempting to me from a pure control freak standpoint, but I just don't have the time.
Hang in there, I believe you can make what ever timeline you are looking for with the help of others. Believe me, I saw your earlier postings, and I'm happy this one generated comments. Looking forward to hearing more on your effort!
Joe, I appreciate that and the link.
I am not trying to be a jerk, just putting out the facts of what happened. I am not upset that no one answered. I just find it strange that some wait to be negative until after decisions were made.
In all honesty there is not a lot to go on out there. I talked with several people and then with the vendors themselves to make my decision.
I don't begrudge anyone making a different decision from me by any means. I simply support people doing the research and choosing for themselves based on the information given.
Hopefully mine and other posts will assist people in these type decisions in the future. There are so many ways to skin this cat that the more real world information that can be provided the better.
Thanks, Brian
Randy,
I am with you for sure on your last post. Transponding seemed way too much of a bear to deal with for my needs. The simple blocks and sensor detecting made it simple in my mind to accomplish my end goals.
I did not want to be in the position where automation was setup like on analog layouts of old. 50 million wires, switches, actual power districting and blocking, etc.
Thanks much for your replies as they helped me greatly in the process. It was your original example of your friends trolley setup that stuck in my mind so well.
TexasSP You're suggesting it would take me over a month to setup one stop, that's insane. There is nothing there that could possibly make it take that long.
TexasSP It is roughly 300 sqft and has 4 main lines. None of them intersect. I will be running 6 blocks on each line with 2 trains running per line. So a total of 8 trains will be running at once. All sound equipped (yes it's loud). It will be fun though programming different sounds at stops, crossings, and what not. I am using a Digitrax Super Chief system with two DCS boosters.