DCC dirtiest?

[rrinker]

 See, you won't pull the 9 pin JST connector out by the wires, well, I would never EVER put OIL of any sort on my track. It's completely unecessary and just attracks dirt.

                --Randy

 

[fwright]

Although DCC supposedly arc less than DC, arcing and sparking may only be a small part of the story. 

For the arcing itself, the assumption was made that voltages were similar, and consequently the waveform made the difference in the results.  I would submit that most DC layouts are not operated at 12 volts on a routine basis.  Voltage on the track tends to run between 4 and 9 volts in my experience.  Whether or not the lesser voltage still results in greater arcing temps and residue because of the inductive loading would be an intersting science project, as they say.  As would the impact of using rectified DC with its 120Hz waveform vs filtered DC.

How much of the dirt on a layout is carbon residue from arcing?  On really clean layouts, it might well be a significant percentage.  On others, in windy, dry environments like Colorado (especially with windows open in the summer), dust and dirt are a far bigger issue than carbon residue.

The impact on train operations is probably more dependent on equipment than categorizing by DC or DCC.  Older DCC decoders had a tendency to reset themselves at the slightest interruption of power.  Keep alive circuits (for decoders) and improved programming of decoders have made less than clean-room quality track much more usable.

Similarly, the use of flywheels in locomotives, nickel silver wheels (brass wheels and bolsters oxidize easily), and the tendency to run longer trains with RTR cars have significantly reduced the impact of dirty track on DC operations.

just my thoughts

Fred W

[fondo]

DCC is cleaner than DC, AC help us a lot more about dirty!!!!

[60YOKID]

Actually, AC is known to produce less arcing than DC. Since DCC utilizes AC for track power, DCC should produce less arcing than DC. The theory is that inductive loads tend to maintain current flow for a moment after the wheel to track connection separates. This makes the arc plasma hotter and puts more carbon on the track and the wheels. Here is the url to one article describing arcing in relay boards, and the same theory will apply. http://www.us-boards.com/relay-boards-appl-note-1.html

DC voltage does not go to zero during operation since it is more or less a constant voltage level (depending on speed setting of course). Whereas AC voltage goes through zero many times per second. Any arc can be extinguished during this zero crossing. This tends to produce shorter arcing times and cooler arc plasma's, which generates less carbon.

In addition, the DCC decoder load is somewhat less inductive than a direct connection to a DC motor. This also reduces arcing. Therefore in a nutshell, DCC systems should require less track cleaning than a DC system.

 I happen to use alcohol on a cloth to clean track, and then I apply a small amount of commercial track cleaner to small sections of the track. I do this about once a year.  Also, there is an article in May 2011 Model Railroader about using a small amount of automatic transmission fluid to help keep track clean.

[Texas Zepher]

I've always wanted someone to formulate a science fair project to answer that question.

[desertdog]

I happen to be an advocate of cleaning track only rarely and applying Wahl Clipper Oil maybe three or four times a year.  I also know that there are those who think it is a bad idea or offer a different solution, which is fine by me.  

That said, there is another way to deal with dirty track that I don't see anyone mentioning: powering your trains with more than one locomotive.  It's very common on prototype railroads, even with locals and switch jobs.  On a model railroad, it can help get you over dirty spots, unwired frogs and other dead spots with ease.

 

John Timm

[mobilman44]

Hi!

Lots of good advice here!

To answer your question, neither system affects how dirty your track will get, but DCC is a bit more finicky about your track condition.   I am fortunate in having the layout in a climate controlled former bedroom, and started with squeaky clean track, run only metal wheelsets, have feeders every 3-4 feet, etc., etc.   So I really don't have a problem in this area.

If your layout is in an open basement, you could be dealing with a lifelong situation.   Of course as I have seen, some basements are much better for layouts than others.

[modelmaker51]

One of the biggest culprits are Athearn BB sintered iron wheels. They arc much more than nicklesilver wheels and thereby create a lot more carbon buildup on the track. Replacing these with NWSL or JayBee nicklesilver wheels can eliminate much of your dirty track. If you in an unfinished basement, that will also contribute to your dirt issues. Paint the floor with an epoxy sealer, cover the ceiling, (drop ceiling, drywall or even just staple up some plastic drop covers). Get a dehumidifier to get the hunidity down to an acceptable level. Use CRC 2-26 electronics cleaner (avail at HD etc) for tracks and wheels, it deep cleans and prevents dirt buildup.

If you eliminate the souces of dirt, you won't have to bother changing wheels on your cars. I have over 400 cars on my layout, 75% of them still have their plastic wheels and I never have to clean wheels and I wipe down down the layout with CRC 2-26 layout once or twice a year.

[Hamltnblue]

A couple of other things affect dirt on track.

One is whether or not you have all wheel pick-up on the loco's.  The less pick-up wheels, the more arching on the wheels that do.

Also the speed you run can make a difference.  If you run max speed you tend to get more arching which results in carbon build up. 

If run at low to medium speed with well maintained equipment you should only have to periodically clean the track as noted earlier.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

If you use plastic wheels you're going to pick up a ton of dirt. Metal wheels, though noisier pick up much less and therefore stay cleaner longer, but they too require periodic cleaning. Steel track can become a maintenance nightmare as it corrodes. The corrosion is non-conductive and the locos wheels will be insulated from the rails quickly. Nickel silver also corrodes but the corrosion is conductive to a point so the loco stays in electrical contact with the rails for a longer period of time. There are also procedures like the GLEAM method that help the track stay clean much longer.

[richhotrain]

I saw no difference after converting from DC to DCC.

I eliminated a lot of grime by switching from plastic wheels to metal wheels on all of my rolling stock.  Before that, I had black streaks on the rails all of the time.

Now, I rarely have to clean my track.

Rich

[rrinker]

 I dunno, I run DCC and I never clean my track or wheels, other than the bit of paint that gets on the rail tops when I paint the sides. Back in my DC days it seemed like I was always cleanign track - but that track was all brass, now it's nickel-silver. My rolling stock has only metal wheels, I don't run anything with plastic wheels.

             --Randy

 

[tstage]

No - but DCC is more susceptible to dirty track and not running well than it is with DC.  The real issue has more to do with:

• The environment that your layout is in - Is it dusty?  Is it humid?  Do you smoke?  Do you operate your locomotives with smoke fluid?
• Wheel material - Do you use plastic wheels or metal wheels?
• How you clean your track - Do you use a degreaser?  What kind do you use?  Do you abrade the surface?  Do you clean off the track after you abrade it?  What kind of track do you have?

There's a number of things that can cause poor running of your locomotives.  DCC is just more sensitive/less forgiving with dirty track.  However, if you keep it clean, it runs quite well.  I hardly ever have to clean my track.  Once or twice a year - max.

Tom

[Harley-Davidson]

Is it possible that DCC is dirtiest than DC? I feel that since I use DCC, rails and wheels become dirt faster. I´m right? Thanks.