I just finished reading the thread about Walthers Turnouts shorting out and not wanting to
hijack that thread, I thought I'd start my own.
I built a small 16' long switching layout using Atlas Code 83 track and their #4 turnouts.
Everything ran fine until shortly after I finished my scenery, including ballasting all my track.
All of a sudden 1 switch decides it's going to short out every time a loco (Any loco) hits the frog.
My NCE system will shut down until I move the loco off of the frog and then everything will be fine
until I once again try to run over that frog. At first it only did it once in a while, but finally would do
ot every time with every loco I have.
I talked to Atlas about it and they were more than willing to replace the switch but offered no
ideas on what might be the problem. I told them I don't care about the switch and if I have to
remove it there will be lots of pieces as it is securely glued in place. Out of desperation I dug the
Dremel Tool with a cut off disc and gapped the rails on both sides of the frog. This finally cured the
problem. But now I have another switch doing the same thing!!! This just happens to be at the
other end of the siding where the first problem switch was. So I cut gaps in this one too and the
problem was fixed once again.
Has anybody else had this problem with Atlas Code 83 turnouts? And were you able to figure
out what was causing the problem?
Thanks, Misty
I use them all the time but have not seen the problem you have found.
If the frogs are the cast metal ones like I suspect, the only thing that I can think of is that the rails have moved closer somehow and made contact with the frog. The ones I have seem to have a reasonable gap between the rails and frog that is filled with the plastic during manufacturing.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Is the loco just shorting, or is it derailing as well? Also per another recent thread, is this a steam loco, and could perhaps the pilot wheels be touching the cylinder on the realtively sharp curve of the #4?
My layout is all Atlas #4 Code 83 and I have no problems with them.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The engines are all new diesel locomotives and they are not de-railing.
Whenever the front wheels touch the frog they create a short and shut down
my NCE DCC system. When you back the engine off the frog by hand, the
short disappears and the DCC system will reset itself and everything
returns to normal until I make another attempt to cross the frog.
Misty
bend tower The engines are all new diesel locomotives and they are not de-railing. Whenever the front wheels touch the frog they create a short and shut down my NCE DCC system. When you back the engine off the frog by hand, the short disappears and the DCC system will reset itself and everything returns to normal until I make another attempt to cross the frog. Misty
I have never seen that happen on an Atlast Code 83 turnout, #4 or #6, and I have lots of them.
Is it only the one turnout? Something on the turnout has to be shorting out the turnout. Did you wire that frog for some reason?
If all of the locomotives are shorting at the point of the frog, that would seem to rule out the locomotives as the problem since it is hard to believe that all would have wheels out of gauge or flanges causing the problem. Perhaps, the converging rails at the point of the frog are too close together causing the short as the wheels touch both rails.
Do the locos short out from any direction or just from one direction? Which direction?
What if you manually rolled a freight car with metal wheels through the turnout? Would it short?
Rich
Alton Junction
Is the frog powered? That's the only way I could see there possibly being a short on the Atlas turnouts. The otherwise insulated 'dead' area is quite large and it's simply not possible for a wheel to bridge the insulated area to cause a short. It's possible I suppose that the mold failed to fill properly and the frog (which is metal) is touching one of the rails underneath instead of being protected by a plastic layer, but this would probably make the frog sit too low.
Hi Misty,
Don't do Atlas points this side of the pond but have used Walthers live frog ones. You don't say whether the points are following or facing, with Peco live frog points a cutting disc or insol fishplates come in real handy in doing away with shorts. A meter will help trace feed flows as well..
Be in touch.
pick.
Guys,
It does not matter which direction the engine is running when it comes to the frog.
As soon as the lead wheels touch the frog, a dead short develops. And all of my cars
have metal wheels and there is no problems with them.
I have not attempted to power the frogs at all, they are just as they came from the package.
So far only 2 of 14 turnouts have been problems. To eliminate this problem I've had to use
my Dremel Tool and cut gaps on both sides of the frog about 3/8" away from the frog.
I really appreciate everyones help on this problem, but it seems like I'm the only one
experiencing this. Must be something in the water I mixed with my Elmer's Glue when i
was doing my scenery work.....?
misty
In this thread I posted the spot where I've had problems with shorts on Atlas turnouts.
It's a walthers thread but my experience with shorts is with atlas and peco.
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/193607.aspx
Springfield PA
I just don't see how an Atlas turnotu can short at that point. The insualtion gap for the frog is to the point side of that location - where the gap starts, you'd need an awfully out of scale wide wheel trad to touch both rails. The otehr brands - yes, they run the two rails as close as possible to the frog to minimize the potential dead area, but Atlas has a relatively huge 'dead' frog area - which in the case of Custom-Line turnouts can be powered.
The pic I posted wasn't an atlas, but another to show the spot to look for.
The atlas turnouts have a much tigher gap at that point.
Hamltnblue The pic I posted wasn't an atlas, but another to show the spot to look for. The atlas turnouts have a much tigher gap at that point.
Yeah, they do, but it's all one polarity and insulated from the two rails which do have opposite polarities. The only way to get a short on an Atlas Custom Line turnout anywher enear the frog is if you power the frog but have it wired backwards.
It's not the frog that shorts but the spot next to it where the 2 opposite rails come next to each other.
Right, and it's so far apart that you need a pretty messes up wheel to bridge that space. Hopefully this picture from the Atlas site actually works. Remember it would be the back of the wheel that would have to touch the opposite rail. Not very likely unless that back to back gauge is WAY off.
It was actually a common issue a few years ago when I was having the problem. Some were noting that they used fingernail polish on the side of the rails. I wound up filing them down with a dremel. The space was less than shown in the pic.
It was my broadway limited AC6000's and M1a that were shorting on them.
Here is a problem I have had with my turnouts just in DC operation. When I built my layout, I did so on top of extruded foam, when I put the nails down on the frog, it actually went a bit deeper than other parts of the track work, doing this actually caused the track to bow upward against the exiting track and pinching off the insulator. This was only affecting older diesels, not the newer updated engines. It took me a while to figure this out. Much like you, my system would shut down on overload until I removed the locomotive from the track. I thought the turnout was just bad, until i realized that i may have installed a track nail a little deeper than the ones in the surrounding track. Once I corrected this and developed a method of how deep to drive a track nail, it never happened again.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Don
Donald R Miller
Another reason to use caulk, you can't drive part of the track too far down, plus I'm surprised it even holds in foam with nails, at least before the ballast. Once ballast is glued down it probably doesn't even need any nails to hold the track in place.