I have one of the older Powerhouse versions of Broadway Limited's Heavy Mikado. This is the one with the QSI decoder that was NOT NMRA compliant and "allowed" too much of an inrush current. It makes me have to re- start a digitrax Super Chief 5 amp system if there's a derailing when someone runs a t.o. the wrong way or lift the wheels off the track of another loco to get things up in that power sub district.
You know, the one that had to avoid the MTH lawsuit thang.
So... knowing this was a very common "fix" with a more recent upgrade chip from QSI I emailed them after looking through their website to ask specifically what it was called. Which one to look for? I couldn't find it from searching through the archives.
QSI responded by asking me to call as they didn't seem to know.
Before I do, can anyone tell me what the "common" name for this replacement chip was so I know where to start this phone conversation?
Thanks, Jim
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
What you are thinking of is the QSI firmware chip upgrade http://www.litchfieldstation.com/xcart/product.php?productid=999002828&cat=251&page=1
It was BEMF that was removed to avoid the litigation that MTH was threatening at the time. I do not believe that this chip will make any difference to in-rush current issues as that would require the addition of a capacitor circuit.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
The chip update doesn;t do anything about inrush. I'm very surpised that one loco causes an issue with a 5 amp system. Multiples I can see. Try changing the short response time to 1/2 sec by closing OpSw 18.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The only difference in the decoder microchips was that QSI disabled BEMF because of the lawsuit threats from MTH. Other decoder makers also disabled BEMF until MTH lost. A new chip will have no effect at all on anything other than BEMF.
The QSI Solutions web site has more information about the upgrade chip and what it will or will not change.
http://www.qsisolutions.com/
Hmmm.....thanks very much guys. I'll try your fix Randy and see what happens. It might be awhile (after the Sacramento National Convention) 'til I can run things. My mountain scenicing has shut things down for running at the moment, but I'll see if I can get to it. (Wife's Honey Do list before I leave is a priority).
No wonder QSI seemed confused by my question. I was under the impression that there was an inrush current issue (I think from reading a very old Tony's Train's newsletter). I'll see if I can find it again in their archives.
Thanks Simon, for that link. That was very helpful, at least for later if I want to add BEMF. Also taught me how to remove and install the chip so that takes the fear factor out of that job.
So... was it merely urban myth that the inrush current for the older QSI/BLI Mikes were a constant problem?
Does anyone else here have this issue with their BLI Heavy Mikes? I wanted to buy a couple more of the older Powerhouse versions but held off until I resolved this issue with the lst one.
Basically I can't start up the system with this loco on the track. If it stalls or derails it shuts down the entire sub power district and I have to either remove it or lift wheels on other locos to do a re-start/re-boot. Makes ops challenging.
We've already installed a jumper on the circuit breaker boards and that helped (as per that incredibly long troubleshooting thead awhile back).
I can live without the BEMF for now as the loco's performance otherwise is fine.
Thanks as always,
Jim
Jim, my 2.5A Zephyr powered yard power district (the rest of the layout has a 5A DB150) currently has 2 x Heavy Mike locos, plus 5 other sound locos and 8 non sound locos sitting in the yard. The Mikes are early BLI Powerhouse ones without the upgrade chip. I have been meaning to do the upgrade but have several locos that could use it and it ends up being a big number! Anyway, I digress. The Z powers up and down no problem at all, so without doubt the Z can handle these locos with no problem on my layout.
Addendum: Randy, yes, it isn't only when this loco is on the layout (solo) but with others.
I realize that I may have too many sound locos on the layout at once (no shut off switches for yard tracks yet) but it's only when I remove the QSI/BLI loco or my Athearn Big Boy that things get restored.
I can lift or remove any other locos and it makes no difference. The Big Boy will cooperate when the QSI/BLI loco is removed but not vice versa-if that makes any difference or sense...
Never had a problem until I got the Powerhouse/QSI loco. I hope I'm not sounding ungrateful as another forum member located this engine for me and I AM grateful to him. (Just so he knows!) but I'd like to figure it out eventually..
JIm
Simon, we just "passed" each other in the email zone. Thanks. I'll see what else people suggest and then see if it's a layout problem but I think we've already "done that" via the prior infamously long thread of a couple of months back.
Capt. GrimekNo wonder QSI seemed confused by my question. I was under the impression that there was an inrush current issue (I think from reading a very old Tony's Train's newsletter). I'll see if I can find it again in their archives.
I'd do what randy suggested and set the op switch on the super chief so it takes a little longer for a short.
Springfield PA
Yes, you might be right T.Z. I AM aware of the programming/extra current issues and Tony's programming booster (and other brands). It was a couple of years ago so it's likely I've mixed the two "issues" up with each other.
Anything internal in the loco that can cause a larger than usual inrush current issue? It sure seems to be this particular loco after formerly running/idling up to 8 sound locos prior to this. I reduced the number to 4 and finally to just this loco.
My new jumpers on the PSXs fixed the shutting down of the entire layout (even with sub power districts) and having to reboot. But if only THIS loco is running and shorts out at a t.o., etc. I have to reboot the system to get the loco to power up.
Would the use of a booster pack/box apply to this situation in any way? A way to start up the loco without having to re-start the entire system?
The strange things is that the Zephyr has always handled this well, heck mine even programs old QSI decoders without a booster. I think the circuitry is a bit more up to date int he Zephyr and Zephyr Xtra.
However, the fualt IMO STILL lies with QSI and others who just fall back on "there's no NMRA standard for inrush current" rather than add a couple cents of parts so there is no inrush problem. All that's needed are a diode and resistor to limit how fast the capacitor can charge up, but allow it to freely discharge to supply the cpu with power. A good example is shown on Marcus's site about adding keep alive to other decoders that don't have them. It can also be seen in the cirtuit of most any CD switch machine supply, because with the massive capacitors used on those - talk about an inrush! It seems that some manufacturers are realizing this and there are some newer sound decoders that have keep alive but not an inrush problem. Not much help for an older one. I suppose if I had a spare that I didn;t care if it fried, I'd five it a go, unless the keep alive was a surface mount device. Theoretically you could cut the cap loose and add the resistor and diode - dunno if that one diode drop would eat enough voltage that the keep alive wouldn't function though.
If you are going to the NMRA convention in Sacramento, look uo Tony's Trains booth at the train show. They have the necessary chip to restore your BLI's loco to full implementation.
Tom K
Tom K, which chip would that be? I will visit Tony's booth while i'm there.
QSI made upgrade chips for allt he old decoders. It enabled BEMF and in some cases has improved sounds, plus allows you to change the sounds with the Quantum Programmer. You can't edit the sound sets, but you can swap them entirely.
QSI Soultions, another Tony's company, is the distributor.
They are the same "chips" as the ones in the Litchfield Station link I posted at the start of the thread. They are available on-line from Tony's as well as other DCC vendors as well. Scroll to the bottom of this link page to see them on his web site http://tonystrains.com/products/qsi_solutions_main.htm According to the web site pricing they are $10 more a set from Tony's.