Most of the time this is safe - so long as you don't leave a loco just sitting there parked and buzzing away. Anything but perhaps a big old open frame motor will heat up and eventually experiece a failure. Even the heavy motor will eventually overheat if left there long enough.
There is one IMPORTANT exception. Coreless motors. They will pretty much be instnatly destroyed if used on DCC without a decoder. They will also be destroyed if used with an older cheap DCC decoder that does not use a high frequency motor drive. Normally you only find these motors in high end brass or if a aprticualrly nice loco was remotored for incredibly smooth slow speed performance. As far as I know there are no RTR plastic locos that have coreless motors in them. If the OP has some 'special' locos from a quality standpoint, it could be that the have coreless motors. If they are special because they are older and not exactly top quality but have a great sentimental value, they will probably run fine on address 0 if it is too difficult to install a decoder (but you can put a decoder in anything that runs, really - it's all about how much effort you are willing to put in).
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Some of the real DCC systems can do one DC loco on address 00 as well as the primitive Bachmann EZCommand. I know Digitrax can and I'm sure some of the others can. I know not all of them can.
I still would recomment that only as a temporary solution while you convert your DC locos one at a time. If you do that, don't leave your DC locos parked on a DCC powered track. That telltale buzzing should be a warning that the loco will eventually overheat. They should be OK while actually in motion. They will still buzz.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
As mentioned:
You CAN with a toggle switch or single jack
You CAN IF you only run one system at a time with safety to be SURE it is only one or the other.
BUT NOT Mentioned:
BUT- SOME DCC systems {like the Bachmann EZ Command DCC system} will let you run ONE DC loco on spot #10 on the layout with the DCC's.
BUT- If you mess up, you will fry somthting you don't want to fry.
BUT- a cheap diesel DCC loco wired only for speed, direction and lighting will cost you about $50, a DCC small steamer about $100. {If you want sound then you are looking at the $200-$300 level}.
BUT-If you have only 6 that are "near and dear" to you then I would contend that paying the $100 per to convert them is reasonable if you have someone who will do it for you OR you can learn to do it yourself. They will need modifications to be converted in most cases so be sure to have someone who knows what they are doing do it, or learn as much as you can before you attempt yourself.
BUT- If you are only going to buy DCC equiped locos from now on, you are going to pay the prices for a DCC equiped loco, so converting yours may make some economical sense if you are going to spend $200-$300 on a new one anyway.
BUT- if you stick with only ONE system you are less likely to make any mistakes and fry something.
I got rid of my DC locos when I went DCC just to be SURE I wouldn't run into problems and have stuck with DCC. Glad I made the change. My DC locos will soon find their way to a for sale listing on another forum.
Good luck, but seriously consider running only ONE system and converting your "near and dear" locos.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
1. In nearly all cases a toggle switch failure will result in a dead connection, not an unwanted connection.
2. In my own system I have an additional fail-safe: I only have one extension cord socket available so in addition to the switch I must unplug one of my two systems from its source of power in order to plug the other one in.
3. Extra-careful - if I, or more likely somebody else, for some bizarre reason choose to bypass the power-plug fail-safe AND the toggle fails AND it somehow connects the two power sources, one or both of the fuses between my power sources and the toggle will trip.
Having said all that, the single-jack approach is also perfectly viable but I have found that any jack I can try has a much lower number of life cycles than a good-quality toggle.
What type of locos would you want with dual mode decoders installed? There are sound and non-sound available. They can be run on DC with no need for a DCC controller. Better to run with a DCC controller but some do run the dual mode DCC locos with a DC power pack and are satisfied. You can get dual mode with sound also. Just cannot select certain sounds. You have to turn up the power pack higher than with a DC loco.
Athearn and Bachmann have the dual mode sound locos with Tsunami.
BLI has sound locos with no motor control for DCC. The locos are wired for DC. Neat. They provide a connector if you want DCC motor control by installing a non sound decoder. BUT, those locos go for about $300.00 each.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Installing a decoder can be difficult in MANY case. Just not all. There are many different situations you will find out which depends on the age of the loco, how much current the motor draws and whether it is DCC ready or not. Even some DCC ready are small with no DCC connector to plug into. Sound installs can be different also.
I belong to twenty forums and see many questions about installs.
Some steamers are DCC ready in the tender but the person wants to squeeze the decoder into the engine, not the tender.
The diesels with marker lights can be a real headache.
The odds of a DPDT Center Off switch failing in a mode that connects both outer terminals together is slim to none with slim having just caught the last train out of town. The metal contact inside isn't long enough to bridge both outer terminals in the first place
I'll add my own off-key voice to the chorus telling you to make absolutely, positively sure that only one system can be connected to the layout at a time.
But, adding a decoder to a locomotive just isn't that difficult, in most cases. The hardest part is finding space for the decoder, and most of them aren't that big. Yes, installing a sound decoder and speaker is a bit more of an effort, since the sound decoders themselves are larger than "generic" motor decoders and older engines weren't designed for speakers, but even that can be done.
If you can solder small connections, you can install a decoder. And when you power up that "old friend" on DCC for the first time, you will be glad you got over the "fear factor" and learned this relatively simple skill.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I would imagine that if you only purchased dual mode locos (DC/DCC) which know whether they are on a DC layout or DCC layout would be appropriate. But otherwise agree with all other responders to your question.
And as mentioned before it is weay to easy to get distracted and powerup a DCC loco with DC or vise versa. What a heartbreaker with a $200+ loco.
cadman1
I would suggest a single jack that connects to your layout buss, and a plug for each system. Since there is only one place to plug in you will be forced to disconnect one system completely from the layout before you can plug in the other system.
Switch contacts can fail.
A DCC engine can be run on a DC layout as long as that has not been disabled in the decoder.
If you convert your old engines one at a time over a period of time it will lessen the blow.
You've already been told what you need to know. I just want to reinforce the importance of the DPDT switch, at least 6 amp capacity. I run both right now too as I slowly install DCC in my overlarge loco fleet. The switch easily prevents stupidity which visits all of us at least occasionally.
Yes, by wiring all power to the railroad through a DPDT center off toggle switch., COnnect DC to one side, DCC to the other. Either the whole layout is DC< or the whole layout is DCC, and never the twain shall meet. This is safe - any other method is not and all it takes is a simple mistake of forgetting to flip a toggle here or there, or even just runnign past a block boundary, to damage a loco, the DCC system, or both. Never mix systems in any way that such a situation could possibly arise - no mater how much you say you will never ever do this - all it takes is a slight distraction while runnign trains. It doesn;t even take a loco to cross the boundary to cause problems - metals wheels across the gap, or a lighted passenger car, will equally cause a problem.
Yes - getting the point? DON'T DO THIS! One or the other, completely, is the ONLY safe way.
Friend of mine has a piece of 'memorabilia' which would be perfect for this situation - it's a very large knife switch with a big lever and knob on it, some sort of high current disconnect or something. Feed DC on one side, DCC on the other, throw the lever to select which system powers the layout.
Specifically as described - take the wires going to the power pack fromt eh block toggles, and connect them to the center of a DPDT center off switch., Connect the power pack to one side of the DPDT. Connect the DCC system to the other side.
Most things made in the past 20 years are not that difficult to convert to DCC - what is it about those locos that would make them cost $100 to add DCC to? SOund yes, a DCC/sound decoder costs that much for a good one, but motor decoders are MUCH cheaper.
Not simultaneously! You can wire your layout through a DPDT toggle switch that will change from one mode to the other and never allow both to be connected at the same time.
If you don't have such a toggle switch to prevent both systems from powering the track at the same time you could easily make a mistake and burn up several DCC decoders or a DCC system.
I wired a large HO scale club layout so it can be operated using either DC walk-around throttles or DCC long before we ever got a DCC system, but both systems cannot be on at the same time.
Is it possible to run DC and DCC together on the same layout. I am back in the hobby after a long absence. I have approx, 15 various engines. 6 of those are near and dear to me, I had then specially painted and detailed almost 20 years ago. I looked into having them converted to DCC but it would cost me about $100.00 per engine. There is no way possible for me to do it myself. I am looking to purchase a couple of DCC/ Sound engines, but still want to run my DC engines. Can I run both? If not can I run DCC engines at times and the DC engines at other time, removing the DCC engines from the layout when I run the DC engines. I just finished wiring my layout for DC, feeders going to bus, bus going to power packs. Any thoughts and Ideas would be greatly appreciated. I am operating in HO scale.