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double crossover wiring

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  • Member since
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  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
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Posted by gmpullman on Friday, November 14, 2014 10:11 PM

richhotrain
The double crossover does not absolutely require power feeds at all four ends, but I have found that my engines tend to stall on the unpowered ends, so it is best to add feeders directly to each end.

I agree with every bit of advice Rich has mentioned. I have two "DCC friendly" versions that I installed about ten years ago when that particular variety was introduced by Walthers to replace the existing power routing type I had there previously.

The DCC friendly type is also refered to as an ALL LIVE turnout meaning each side of the circuit, rail A and rail B are always powered regardless of the position of the points.

There is a whole different set of rules to follow for "power routing" turnouts where current flow is dictated by the throw or direction of the points.

Just this evening I am removing some of the last of the power routing turnouts and replacing them with the "DCC friendly" aka all live type.

To follow through with Rich's point above, the additional feeders are more for insurance of trouble free operation  in the future. Quite a few of the Shinohara turnouts distributed by Walthers that I have bought I have found some of the contact strips that are spot welded to the bottom of the rails on the underside of the turnout either were loose, missing Hmm or became loose after installation (by checking with a test light I have found individual rail segments were dead) so if you have the eight feederd, four to rail A and four to rail B at the ends of your double crossover you will at least have some assurance that the continuity will be good.

I am also in the process of installing (almost doubling) the number of feeders on my 19 year old trackwork! Take the advice of the DCC gurus here and have PLENTY of feeders! It matters!

Good luck, Ed

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Posted by Redvdub1 on Friday, November 14, 2014 8:23 PM

on our code 100 Shinohara double crossovers (new ones) you only have to throw both routes simultaneously to avoid shorting the K crossings (the upper and lower crossings.  We route power through point-stock rail contacts and haven't had any problems.  We use Caboose Hobby ground throws to maintain contact pressure between the point rails and the stock rails.  None of our engines sort out the point-stock rail gaps..and we've tried.  The above won't work with "old" Shinohara code 100 doubles because the X crossings (the left and right crossings) short out. 

Redvdub1

Old Newburgh Model RR Club

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Posted by zstripe on Friday, November 14, 2014 4:36 PM

Deleted: By Poster.

Take Care! Big Smile

Frank

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, November 14, 2014 11:47 AM

Glad to help, Ray.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by rfleisch on Friday, November 14, 2014 10:53 AM
Rich, Thank you for taking the time to set me straight!!! Best Regards, -Ray F.
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  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, November 14, 2014 9:51 AM

rfleisch
Rich, From reading different posts it was stated that if all 4 turnouts are set to diverge that a electrical short will be created. I will be using a Quad-pic to throw these and I was planning on throwing all 4 so that a train would do the inner oval then crossover to the outer oval loop go around then cross over to the inner oval, repeat, repeat, and repeat. Regards, Ray F.
 

Ray, what you plan to do will certainly work.  The Walthers DCC Friendly #6 Double Crossover is gapped and the frogs are isolated, so no electrical shorts will occur when all four turnout segments are set to divergent.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by rfleisch on Friday, November 14, 2014 9:34 AM
Rich, From reading different posts it was stated that if all 4 turnouts are set to diverge that a electrical short will be created. I will be using a Quad-pic to throw these and I was planning on throwing all 4 so that a train would do the inner oval then crossover to the outer oval loop go around then cross over to the inner oval, repeat, repeat, and repeat. Regards, Ray F.
  • Member since
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  • From: Dearborn Station
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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, November 14, 2014 9:20 AM

rfleisch
I have one of these also and I was planning on installing it between my "oval loop within an oval loop" as a way to cross over from on to the other. Are you saying that I can NOT set the turnouts to both be in the crossover position?? Regards, -Ray F.
 

Ray, I don't think that anyone is saying that at all.

It is mostly a matter of safety and traffic control.

In your case, you want to install a double crossover to provide a connection between an oval inside an oval so that trains may crossover from one oval to another.

If you want a train to run on the outer oval while another train runs on the inner oval, both sides of the double crossover would, of course, be set to the straight through route.

If, however, you want to route one of the trains to the other loop, at least one of the two crossovers must be set to divergent.  In that instance, no other train on either oval can cross the double crossover, so it makes sense to throw both crossovers divergent instead of just one, at least in an automated operation as suggested below.

If you are using manual ground throws, you will need two actions, typically, to throw the appropriate two turnouts divergent.  So, in this case, no need to throw all four turnouts, requiring four separate actions, two will do.  But if you are wiring the double crossover to a switch machine such as a Tortoise, the wiring can be set up to throw all four turnouts at one time, simultaneously, so why not set it up that way?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by rfleisch on Friday, November 14, 2014 7:56 AM
I have one of these also and I was planning on installing it between my "oval loop within an oval loop" as a way to cross over from on to the other. Are you saying that I can NOT set the turnouts to both be in the crossover position?? Regards, -Ray F.
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Posted by Hamltnblue on Saturday, April 2, 2011 3:42 PM

Power from the surrounding tracks will work fine, but if you want to avoid having issues a few years down the road do as rich suggested and tack on a few feeder wires.  It takes more time now but worth not having a hassle down the road.

Springfield PA

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, April 2, 2011 6:23 AM

John,

I have 3 of the Walthers #6 Double Crossovers on my layout.  In my experience, it is best to wire all four ends of the double crossover with power feeds to prevent stalls.  The double crossover does not absolutely require power feeds at all four ends, but I have found that my engines tend to stall on the unpowered ends, so it is best to add feeders directly to each end.

Using manual ground throws will work just fine.  And, no need to power the frogs.

One thing to watch out for is reverse polarity through the double crossover.  If the double crossover is to be used to connect a double main line, no problem.  But, if the double crossover is connecting two loops, you are going to have a reverse loop with reverse polarity problems that will need to be addressed.

Can you provide a track diagram?

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
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double crossover wiring
Posted by johngriffey18ca1 on Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:17 PM

I have a new walthers shinohara double crossover # 6.  With DCC operation, will I have to wire it at all or will the power to the surround tracks suffice?   I don't care about powered switches, I'm just going to install manual ground throws, I'm also not concerned with powered frogs as long as my locos will be able to go from one track to another through the crossover without losing power.  Will it work?   The description is copied and pasted below:

#6 Double Crossover
Walthers Part # 948-8812, p. 237 Walthers 2011 HO Scale Reference
HO scale, $79.98, currently in stock at Walthers

 
Now that more and more layouts are using Digital Command Control, we've revised our entire selection of turnouts to make them DCC-Friendly. These new versions feature electrically isolated frogs and points to eliminate polarity problems that may cause short circuits when decoder-equipped locos or cars with metal wheels enter the turnout.
 
These drop-in replacements for existing Walthers Code 83 products come fully assembled with:
 
Pre-wired jumper
 
Isolated frog with built-in connection; an access point allows you to convert to a live frog if desired
 
Powered points with correct polarity
 
Improved point clearance gaps to prevent short circuits from metal wheelsets
 
Insulated tie bar
 
Tab reinforcement to hold points more securely
 
Option to power frog through switch machines

Tags: DCC

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