Converting Rivarossi 4-8-4 to DCC? Help!

[richg1998]

Check the TCS decoder site. Many instructions for different brands of locos.

http://www.tcsdcc.com/

The link from wiring for dcc seems to be very good.

Rich

[Mem160]

How did you make out with this project?  I'm thinking about sending my D&H Challenger out to have it done professionally.  It's probably 20 years old.  I wonder if I can swap shells with a newer UP Challenger that is DCC Ready?

 

 - Mark

[ANAHI PERALTA]

Thank you Ed. I'll deal with this coal load. I'll comment according I finish my work.

Regards.

[7j43k]

If the tender has a coal load, you can cut it out and work through the hole.  And then add in a removable load.

If it's oil, you have the option of destroying the oil tank, saving as many pieces as possible, and building a new one.

 

 

 

Ed

[ANAHI PERALTA]

Thank you very much. Regards.

[Steven Otte]

ANAHI PERALTA

OK. How can I contact him by PM?. [PM is "Personal Message"?]. Thanks.

Click on the user name of the person you want to send a message to, and on the next page that comes up, to the right of the person's name you'll see the words "Add as Friend." Right under that is a smaller link that says "Start conversation." Click "Start conversation" to send them a PM.

[ANAHI PERALTA]

OK. How can I contact him by PM?. [PM is "Personal Message"?]. Thanks.

[ANAHI PERALTA]

I have a FEF Rivarossi Locomotive and I needto install it a Tsunami sound decoder. My first problem is to open the tender. If you had this experience, how I have to do it, the tender is close. The only possibility that I saw is open at the end of it. My personal E-mail is [removed by moderator].  Thanks.

 

[From the Moderator: It's a bad idea to put your e-mail address on a public forum. Folks, if you can help this person, please reply by PM instead. Thanks.]

[bnsfmowtrucks]

just for a test  i installed a decoder that i took out of my trackmobile  and  he works like a charm  its a nce decoder  i also removed both ends of my tender  im addin leds as well as sound

[john.pickles87]

Hi Rob,

There is one thing noboby mentioned, check the stall rating.  Soundtraxx decoders are only 1Amp rated,I had a Riv Blue Goose that peaked with locked wheels at over 1¼ needed a can motor.  Not trying to putting a spanner in, just helping out

Be in touch.

pick.

[bnsfmowtrucks]

I am doing this conversion as well  I got lucky ,I was able to get the loco side of the tender apart with out damage in about 15 mins

[CAZEPHYR]

Rob2112

Im thinking of converting my straight DC Rivarossi 4-8-4 (UP) to DCC.  How tough of a job is it?  Anyone out there done this yet?  Looks like Soundtraxx makes a decoder (TSU-1000) and sells a good variety of speakers.  Any wiring diagrams available?

Thanks for any help!

Rob

If you search the products under HO and FEF-3, the following article will show up with pictures.  The DCC is as simple as removing the sand dome, but the sound installation is more complicated. 

CZ

 

Rivarossi upgrades its HO scale Union Pacific 4-8-4 Northern steam locomotive

Reviewed in the January 2004 issue

by Andy Sperandeo // Published: March 25, 2004

Rivarossi HO Union Pacific 4-8-4 Northern steam locomotive Click on chart for a larger image Improved HO 4-8-4 has looks and power This HO 4-8-4 from Rivarossi is a welcome upgrade to an accurate and attractive model originally introduced in 1980. The new engine features RP-25 wheels, improved electrical pickup, flywheel drive, increased weight for traction, and wiring for plug-in installation of Digital Command Control (DCC). The Rivarossi 4-8-4 was always a good model of its prototype, the Union Pacific FEF-3 class, and is now offered by exclusive importer Wm. K. Walthers with more-authentic paint and lettering, and with an oil tender. A magnetic knuckle coupler on the tender, working backup light, and darkened metal wheels and rods round out the new features. The wheels are probably the greatest concern for modelers who remember when older Rivarossi locomotives had trouble operating on track manufactured to National Model Railroad Association standards, especially with rail sizes smaller than code 100. The new wheels on this 4-8-4 have the RP-25 contour that the NMRA specifies "for optimum track holding ability and most prototypical appearance within the interchange limits of NMRA standard S-4." While most of the engine and tender wheelsets are correctly gauged, I did find three pairs of drivers slightly narrow. The drivers can be removed from the frame and regauged with a wheel puller or similar device. Do not attempt to re-gauge the drivers by twisting them on their axles. Even if this were possible, it would wreck the "quartering" or 90-degree offset that allows the side rods to function correctly. The main driver is equipped with a traction tire, which helps the engine achieve a remarkable drawbar pull. This tire didn't cause any wobbling as the model ran, but Rivarossi has anticipated that some modelers will prefer not to have it. An optional main driver set without the traction tire is included. The locomotive now picks up current from all eight drivers and from three wheels on each side of the tender. That's still only 12 wheels out of an available total of 30, but quite a step up from the two pickup wheels on each side of the original models. Three wires from the cab plug into a small connector on the front of the tender for the pickup connections and to complete the circuit for the directional backup light. The engine runs smoothly and quietly and has a realistic speed range. If anything, the prototype locomotives were capable of exceeding the model's top speed. It actually starts moving at a lower voltage and speed than shown in the graph on page 156, which is its slowest sustained speed. The model can operate on much sharper curves, but will look its best on curves of 30" radius or larger. On larger curves its adjustable drawbar may be shortened to bring the cab and tender closer together. The drawbar seemed tight on the tender pin and may be taking some weight off the front of the tender. I'd suspect this in any tender derailments and use a file to loosen the fit. A decoder socket following NMRA recommendations is located under the combined steam and sand dome, which is removable. For actual decoder installation, however, it will be best to remove the boiler. This is a much easier task than on many recent steam models and is detailed in the manufacturer's illustrated instruction sheet. However, the instructions don't mention that the boiler can't be removed without disconnecting the three metal pipes from the feedwater heater atop the smokebox, and the metal reverse gear reach rod from the right front of the cab. The retainer holding the feedwater heater piping is easy to remove by pushing it out from inside the smokebox. Also, I found that front handrails would easily slide out of the stanchions on the air compressor shield as I lifted the boiler, so there's no need to remove the stanchions per the instruction sheet. If you're considering a DCC sound installation, access to the tender is improved - the front and rear tender bulkheads are no longer glued and may easily be removed. The red Mars signal light mounted above the headlight still doesn't operate, but with the lighting functions available on many DCC decoders, that wouldn't be difficult to fix. The smokebox front pulls out for access. However, the Union Pacific used these oscillating red lights as emergency stop signals, so they weren't turned on in normal operation. The model shown is painted in the two-tone gray with yellow striping and lettering used on these locomotives from 1946 to 1949. (The roller-bearing journal covers on the trailing truck and tender were not painted silver before the late 1950s, but a little flat black paint will fix that.) The engine also has the smoke deflectors and signal light that were installed in 1947. It accurately represents the engines of that time except for three major details. The UP 4-8-4 tenders had a more rounded contour at the top that closely matched the curve of their cab roofs, but the model includes the same tender used with Rivarossi's Challenger and Big Boy models. The trailing truck is also the same one used on the articulated engines; the 4-8-4 trucks had a contour that bumped up symmetrically over each journal box. And the model's Worthington SA feedwater heater system represents equipment applied to some of these locomotives in the mid- 1950s. As built in 1944, the FEF-3s carried Elesco exhaust steam injectors on the fireman's (left) side. Many steam fans will probably overlook these discrepancies in an otherwise attractive and smooth- running engine, and of course the model is more accurate for late-'50s locomotives and fan-trip favorite no. 844. The model's rods and valve gear are especially good-looking, and they're set off by correctly scaled 80" drivers. Whether hauling a heavyweight limited or pinch-hitting on a Streamliner, Rivarossi's upgraded FEF-3 will make a handsome sight.

HO scale UP 4-8-4

[simon1966]

They were purchased by Hornby.   All Hornby and Rivarossi manufacturing was moved to China, although I beleive that Rivarossi still has offices in Italy.

 

http://rivarossi.hornbyinternational.com/

[Rob2112]

Thanks for the help guys!  Especially the wiring diagram link.  This deffinetly gives me some insight on what to expect.  I've been kicking around the idea of doing this for awhile and with this info, I will go ahead with it.  Sounds like the biggest challenge will be getting into the tender!  With the price of buying one of these already complete with DCC and sound, this is a viable alternative.

Once I get started I will take some pics as I go and post it to this topic for future reference to somebody looking to do the same.

By the way... who owns Rivarossi now?  I've heard they went out of business awhile ago.

[simon1966]

BTW, if it is like the Big Boy then all the wires in the loco are the same color (black).  Use the factory wiring diagram in the link I posted above to make sure you know what comes from where.  In the installation example on the Wiring for DCC web site they are just installing a non sound decoder and are able to fit it into main engine.  Sound of course will have to go in the tender, and if you use a regular Tsunami, which is huge, it will have to be in the tender.  Therefore you will have to route the connections for the motor, pickups and front headlamp back to the tender.   This will require a connector if you want to be able to disconnect the two.   I have to say for a first time hard wire decoder install this one will be a bit of a challenge.   It is certainly able to be accomplished however.

[farrellaa]

I used a Digitrax SDH series decoder with sound and motor control (not very good; go with Tsunami). The wiring is not that hard but you need the NMRA wire color table which may come in the instruction for the  decoder. The decoder wires will be correct but the engine may have different colors. You will have to match them up as you go. The motor wires are grey and orange. The wheel pickup from the track is red for right rail and black for left rail. The blue wire is the common for the lights with white going to the headlight and yellow to the rear light (if it has one)  The purple,green or tan wires are ususally for the speaker on a sound decoder. Your instructions will tell you how to wire the speaker. Also, you may need 1000 ohm resistors for the lights if they are 1.5-3.0 volt bulbs,again check your decoder instructions. I have never used a Tsunami decoder but have installed two of the Soundtraxx LC decoders. When I did my Challenger I replaced some of the wires by soldering the decoder wire directly to the motor.

Do a search on the internet for  install articles for your specific engine and decoder and you most likely will find more info. The biggest problems I have had are tracing some of the wires in the locomotive because they don't use the NMRA color code. Some wires are easy to follow and some arent't, depending on the engine. Just take your time and practice soldering small wires before attempting to do it on your model (unless your already have decent soldering skills). Good luck,

   - Bob

[simon1966]

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/hrfef.htm

This link should be of help

 

 

[Rob2112]

Was it pretty easy to wire?  Do you have a wiring diagram, or did it come with the decoder?   I will probably go with a Soundtraxx TSU-1000, is that what you went with?

I do appreciate the info... I f I can get a wiring diagram, I will feel much better going into this adventure, I just dont want to ruin a great loco as I havent wired any engines to DCC yet.  Call me "Chicken!" lol.

[farrellaa]

I have opened the tender on my  Big Boy and Challenger, basically the same. The trick it to very gradually pry the end (near the engine) with a sharp #11 exacto blade. Study where the seams are and eventually you can get it started. I was lucky on one and it didn't even damage the body. The second one was glued a little better and I pulled some of the body away but it  all went back together OK. While I had them opened I added rear LED lights and installed my speaker on the inside of the tender end facing the cab of the loco. I drilled a lot of very small holes and you really  can't see them when coupled to the loco. there are two steel plates covering the entire floor so you can't put speakers there. I used small connectors made from IC connector sockets. This is a lot of work but well worth it in the end. While I was at it I put LED's in the headlights as well. I used 12 volt LED's so I wouldn't have to add resistors.

Just take it slow and when you have the tender ends off, you can see what you have to work with. I put my decoder in the loco, just ahead of the cab. I had to cut a small part of the weight and the cab internal rib, but  it worked out fine.

   -  Bob

[simon1966]

I did a Riv Big Boy, if the tender is anything like the same it is essentially a molded tube with the ends being glued into the tube.  It was very difficult to work the ends loose without damaging the model to any great degree.  

[Rob2112]

Greeat... thats what i was affraid of... I will do some poking around but if its too much, it'll just have to stay DC forever.   Thanks!

[cacole]

What David said.

We have a club member with one of those that he purchased used recently and we haven't figured out yet how to break into the tender, but that's where everything must go.

 

[Rob2112]

Im thinking of converting my straight DC Rivarossi 4-8-4 (UP) to DCC.  How tough of a job is it?  Anyone out there done this yet?  Looks like Soundtraxx makes a decoder (TSU-1000) and sells a good variety of speakers.  Any wiring diagrams available?

Thanks for any help!

Rob