I have recently purchased and istalled a Walthers Double Crossover on my layout.. These are advirtized as DCC friendly with the approriate isolated frogs etc. After istalling and running I cannot go from track to track but can continue straight through the cross over. I am confused what else needs to be donew to the device to get the crossover to work. Any and all suggestis would be appreciated. GENE
Check the polarity of the two tracks.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
As Dave Noted check that the wires on the inside track are hooked up the same polarity as the outside loop. The rail towards the outside of the inside should have the same wire hooked up to it as the outside rail of the other track
Springfield PA
Is the DCC system shorting or is the train just stopping? If it is just stopping then you need feeders on all 4 legs of the crossover. If it is shorting then swap polarity of one loop like the other posters have suggested.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
I have received the notes and thank you all for the advice. I do believe after seeing the note from PETE the issue is I need to have power on both ends. The engine stops half way through the crossover. I am electrical challenged and shoul have realized that. Its cost me a lot of time but I will certainly try the simple solution first. Will be out of town for a few days but once back will try the fix and will report back. Thank you all again GENE
I have made the hook up and I now have a fault. I checkked and re checked the wires and they are the same as the other end which worked. Now I am really confused. Any next step help would be appreciated thank you
Is the system shorting out? Make darn sure the polarity is correct from one track to the next. Could you post a picture or drawing of the track plan?
I have three of the Walthers Shinohara #6 double crossovers on my layout.
As you have already been told, they need to be powered by feeders on each of the four sets of rails at the ends of the double crossover. And, the polarities must be in phase.
If you have done both of these things and you still have problems, you may have a reversing section involved, in which case the reverse polarities need to be dealt with. As Pete requested, a track diagram would be helpful.
Is the engine "stalling", that is, losing power? Or, is it a "short", that is, the system is shutting down?
Rich
Alton Junction
I am working on a picture. But let me assure you I have two completely seperate dog bones for a layout. This is theonly place things touch each other. The operation was absolutely fine until I connected the other end of the cross over this past weekend. I could run trains on both dog bones but just couldn't cross over. Now I can do nothing at all. Again thanks for all the help and suggestions. One question I do have. I use rail joiner with wires attached to get power to th etrack. Do they need to be attached directly to the Crossover system or can there be another piece of track in between the connection and the crossover. Just a question thank you GENE
The picture will definitely help. Even a sketch of the track layout should help.
Chief 148 One question I do have. I use rail joiner with wires attached to get power to the track. Do they need to be attached directly to the Crossover system or can there be another piece of track in between the connection and the crossover. Just a question thank you GENE
One question I do have. I use rail joiner with wires attached to get power to the track. Do they need to be attached directly to the Crossover system or can there be another piece of track in between the connection and the crossover. Just a question thank you GENE
Gene,
For some reason, the double crossover is finicky, more so than most turnouts or other track sections. I would add power feeders directly to each of the end rails of the double crossover, all 8 of them.
GENE
I am afraid you have a reverse loop going on. Without seeing a track plan is hard to picture. Try to follow one rail around your layout and see if it gets mixed up with the other rail. Going through the crossover is the most likely spot. You can split your layout at the crossover and put a DPDT switch or auto reverser in it.
Edited Reply
Edit Note: Diagram deleted
Rich, surely your diagram is wrong? Follow a wheel set pair in your mind as you traverse the crossover, and the way you have it drawn the wheels have to flip. Drawn correctly and there is an obvious reverse loop in both directions
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
simon1966 Rich, surely your diagram is wrong? Follow a wheel set pair in your mind as you traverse the crossover, and the way you have it drawn the wheels have to flip. Drawn correctly and there is an obvious reverse loop in both directions
Simon,
It surely is wrong. I got up too early and drew that diagram too quick. Thanks for catching that error. I removed the diagram from the earlier post so as not to confuse people.
Obviously, there is a reverse polarity issue here. I prepared a revised diagram that shows the reverse polarity in the upper track plan. The mismatch is clear as you see the different colored rails joined together as you indicated.
In the lower track plan on the diagram, I have boxed in the reversing section, essentially the lower half of the double crossover and the left dogbone. The circled areas are the required rail gaps to isolate the reversing section. The lower track plan shows the result of a toggle switch or auto-reverse unit flipping the polarities in the reversing section.
That is why the OP was able to run engines straight through the double crossover but not on the divergent routes.
Thanks again for catching that mistake.
If that's how the OP has it set-up he'll be needing a couple of reversers, not just one.
Hamltnblue If that's how the OP has it set-up he'll be needing a couple of reversers, not just one.
You may be right but I don't see the need for two reversers. How so?
To clarify this issue. When I installed the double crossover I had put power on only one end of the device. I could run trains on either track across the unit but not through the crossover. When I tried to do the crossover from either side the train stopped. I have now put power to the other end of the device so there is power to both end so to speak Now I cannot run trains anywhere on the layout. I certainly appreciate all the comments but am growing quite frustrated as nohting seems to work. and now I have no power to the anything as there is a fault. How do I check polarity as has been suggested by several of you good people. Also this reverse thing has come up and that I am not sure about either.
Thank you thus far and I will do whatever is suggested to try and right the wrong Hopefully this clarifies the issues.
My bet is that you have a polarity issue.
You probably need a reverser.
richhotrain Hamltnblue: If that's how the OP has it set-up he'll be needing a couple of reversers, not just one. You may be right but I don't see the need for two reversers. How so? Rich
Hamltnblue: If that's how the OP has it set-up he'll be needing a couple of reversers, not just one.
Just a DUH moment. Glancing at the diagram I was seeing a 2 track main. That would require 2 reversers. The single track main would only take 1.
Chief 148 To clarify this issue. When I installed the double crossover I had put power on only one end of the device. I could run trains on either track across the unit but not through the crossover. When I tried to do the crossover from either side the train stopped. I have now put power to the other end of the device so there is power to both end so to speak Now I cannot run trains anywhere on the layout. I certainly appreciate all the comments but am growing quite frustrated as nohting seems to work. and now I have no power to the anything as there is a fault. How do I check polarity as has been suggested by several of you good people. Also this reverse thing has come up and that I am not sure about either. Thank you thus far and I will do whatever is suggested to try and right the wrong Hopefully this clarifies the issues.
OK, Chief, this clarification helps a lot. I am all but certain that your wiring is OK, but you have a reverse polarity issue. If you look at the track plan at the top of my diagram, with the wiring on one end of the double crossover, the trains will run straight through but not across the double crossover since it needs power at both ends. When you wired the other end, you encountered a reverse polarity issue.
In its simplest sense, does your layout look like the diagram?
Here is what you need to do. If you look at the track plan at the bottom of my diagram, you will need to isolate the left dogbone and the bottom portion of your layout. To isolate this "reversing section", you need to place gaps in the rails at two places - - - the two rails on the upper left indicated by the circles in the track diagram and the two rails beyond the double crossover at the bottom of your layout indicated by the circles. Once you do that, the upper half of the double crossover will be outside the reversing section and the bottom half of the double crossover will be inside the reversing section.
If you look closely at the track plan at the top of the diagram, you can see the reverse polarity situation created where the two different colored rails meet. That is why your DCC system is shutting down. When you wired the other end of the double crossover, you created a dead short.
Once you gap the rails and isolate the reversing section, you will still have a reverse polarity issue. However, your trains will run until they reach the gap. Then they will stop because the reverse polarity will cause the circuit breaker to kick in.
To get your trains to operate inside or outside of the reversing section, you need to install some sort of device that will reverse the polarity as the engine reaches the reversing section. A simple inexpensive device is a double pole double throw (DPDT) toggle switch. But the wiring is complicated and you must throw the switch manually.
The other device, costing around $30, is an auto-reverse unit that automatically senses the reverse polarity and flips it immediately when an engine tries to enter the reversing section. With an auto-reverse unit, a pair of feeder wires from your main bus wires are wired into the input side of the auto-reverse unit. A pair of feeder wires from the output side of the auto-reverse unit are connected to every pair of feeder wires inside the reversing section.
Although my diagram is crudely drawn, the point of reverse polarity is in the center of the double crossover where the four sets of track meet. Look closely at the diagram and you can see where the red colored rails meet the blue colored rails.
In order to operate without shorting out, the entire train (the engine, any lighted passenger cars, and any car with metal wheels) needs to be within the reversing section. Therefore, the reversing section needs to be longer than the longest train. If you can provide us with a track diagram of your layout, we can give you an exact location for the required rail gaps.
Rich thanks for the great clarification. I believe I got what needs to happen but just a couple questions. First I need to isolate both tracks at opposite ends of the crossover correct? Second can I use the plastic rail joiners to do that.? Where does the reverse device get hooked up to? I had bought a device at a fle market when I though I knew what I was doing awhile ago. Its a Bacmand since that is the control I am using. Where would that get hooked up. If that isn't going to do the job suggestions would be appreciated. Again thank you for the great assist. GENE
Chief 148 Rich thanks for the great clarification. I believe I got what needs to happen but just a couple questions. First I need to isolate both tracks at opposite ends of the crossover correct? Second can I use the plastic rail joiners to do that.? Where does the reverse device get hooked up to? I had bought a device at a fle market when I though I knew what I was doing awhile ago. Its a Bacmand since that is the control I am using. Where would that get hooked up. If that isn't going to do the job suggestions would be appreciated. Again thank you for the great assist. GENE
GENE,
Plastic rail joiners are fine for insulating rails. I use them on my layout. Yes, gap the rails on the upper left side of the double crossover and on the lower right side of the double crossover. The resulting reversing section will be isolated from the rest of the layout. Incidentally, the various sections of the double crossover are already gapped, so that part is covered already.
The way that an auto-reverser works is that it has an input side and an output side. On the input side, you need to place two wires from your main bus wire. In other words, two feeder wires from the main bus to the input side of the auto-reverser. On the output side, you need to place two feeder wires runing from the auto-reverser. The two output wires should connect to all of the feeder wires in the reversing section. In other words, any feeder wires from the track rails inside the reversing section should connect to the pair of feeder wires from the output side of the auto-reverser.
One word of caution. Make sure that no feeder wires from the main section of the layout connect to the output side of the auto reverser. Also, make sure that no feeder wires from the reversing section connect to the main bus. It helps to use different color feeder wires for this purpose (e.g., blue and yellow feeder wires in the main section and green and orange feeder wires in the reversing section).
Rich, I have finally had a chance to spend sometime with the layout. I placed the plastic rail joiner on both tracks in two locations. I can now run including through the cross over. So I can go from one dog bone to the other. Did not install the auto revers unit as proposed.I still have a couple spots where the engine stops so I need to look at those. One is where I placed the plastic rail joiners Not sure why they stop at these few spots. Both of them are on the outer loop. Can't thank you enough for the advice. Any ideas on what to check I will take. Thi is a bad week out three nights for exercise at a power plant. Will check the system hopefully thursday evening GENE