I'm just dropping this line in here to start a DCC power control obversation. that is I hear alot of talkabout who's the best in DCC like; NCE, Zepher, MRC, Digitrax and so on. Everytime everyone puts down Bachmann. I just want to put my two cents in for them. first of all I started with the bachmann digital commander set. it came with two locos and accessories. From that I have built a 120 sqaure foot layout walkin style. I have been buying bachmann for four years now. upgraded to the wireless Dynamis system and I haven't had any trouble with the system. Also on top of that the fact is that I can program 9,999 loco's, run up to 400 at one time plus run my electricals like switches, lights and accessories. ALL FROM MY ONE DYNAMIS WIRELESS DIGITAL BACHMANN COMMAND SET! Plus I can add boosters, hand units and more. Just like the rest of you with those more expensive setups. I just touched the surface of what bachmann has to offer. I have several locos from spectra steam to diesel and Ill admit it needs more power to the track but thats why they sell the boosters. Just like the rest of you who have to buy boosters from your systems company. The only difference that I see is you guys and gals pay more. With that I can only say that Im a guy with a champagne taste but a beer drinkers wallet. lets face it. We all love our trains no matter what type they are and all we want to do is keep those engines running and running but it takes money and some of us just don't have it but still want the hobby. so my advice, find what you like and invest in it as long as it has quality and a good warranty!!!!
Teekaho!!
I would expect that you won't get much disagreement, and I am one of those who has been critical of the Bachmann DCC programme as far as one problematic product....the EZ-Command. I feel it was a mistake to make such a system and expect that people would have a rich introduction to what a decoder could do for the user with it as their system. But, as far as the choices of decoders they install, and once they introduced the Dynamis, I felt they had made amends. So, I don't have a beef with Bachmann any more.
Even MRC, I hear, has largely corrected the problems they had with their Brilliance decoder or whatever it was they offered back three years ago in their FEF and Big Boys. But I don't think many people had anything negative to say about their control systems...they have been very good.
Crandell
I'd love to see that thing run 400 loco's at the same time. Wonder if they ever did it.
If it works for you that's all that matters.
Springfield PA
The Dynamis is of course not made by Bachmann, but designed and manufactured by the German DCC company ESU. The system has more than a passing resemblance to the ECos http://www.esu.eu/index.php?id=335&L=2
ESU being a well respected European DCC maker produce well engineered systems, so I don't expect you will see many complaints. Browse around the ESU web site and you can get a glimpse of some of the features that may come out for the Dynamis, should Bachmann decide to offer them, the new Duplex wireless for example.
The biggest beef I have seen regarding the Dynamis is the pricing. Yes the entry level system is aggressively priced for a wireless (IR) base station and throttle. But, there is a very significant cost to add the Probox if you want to run more than one throttle. So whilst it can be regarded as "cheaper" in some respects, I suspect that many of the other DCC systems can be expanded for lower cost. It all depends on what end result you want to achieve.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
teekahoI'm just dropping this line in here to start a DCC power control obversation. that is I hear alot of talk about who's the best in DCC like; NCE, Zepher, MRC, Digitrax and so on. Everytime everyone puts down Bachmann.
Well, Teekaho, then you haven't run across any of my or Ken (cudaken)'s posts on the topic.
With all due respect to Crandell, I very much liked and could recommend the E-Z Command because it allowed me to get my feet wet in DCC with a minimal outlay of expense ($53). I knew the E-Z Commands limitations going into it and I enjoyed it for what it could do rather than for what it could not do.
After a year I upgraded to the then newly released NCE Power Cab and sold my E-Z Command to Ken for $30. That brought down the initial cost of my transition into DCC to a whopping $23!
Now, had I originally forked out full MSRP for the E-Z Command ($100) when I first bought it, I would have saved my pennies and gone with the slightly more expensive and more powerful Digitrax Zephyr instead. (The NCE Power Cab hadn't been released yet.) However, between the cost of the E-Z Command and the decoders to outfit my two locomotives, I was able to enjoy the immediate benefits of DCC on my modest 4 x 8 layout for just under $100 - including S&H!
If someone were to walk up to me today and tell me that they wanted to try DCC but didn't have a lot of money to spend on a system...but could find an E-Z Command for $40-$50, I would have no qualms recommending one to them - i.e. as long as they thoroughly understood what to expect from it and could live with that.
With that said, and as much as I enjoyed the E-Z Command - simple as it was, I would honestly say that I would never consider purchasing nor recommend a Bachmann Dynamis DCC system - tethered or wireless - because you can get a more powerful DCC system for less money by going with either Digitrax or NCE. The initial cost for wireless may be less expensive with the Dynamis. However, I think you pay a greater price with the limited expandability and upgrade path. A 5A booster for the Dynamis is $300. A 5A booster for my Power Cab? ~$130.
In any event, as long as you're happy with the Dynamis, Teekaho - more power to you! However, that'll cost you $300.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
All of the popular systems can address 9000+ locos, except the EZ-Command. Run 400? That I would LOVE to see, even with enough boosters, the transmission delay at the speed of NMRA DCC's packet format would make them uncontrollable. Or at least VERY laggy - it would take between 2 and 4 secodns to send one packet to every loco, and that's assuming they were just all runnign free with no adjustments of speed. Change through 15 speed steps and it could take nearly a minute for all the packets to get to your loco! No need for momentum I guess... But it will make it really hard to blow the whistle at a crossing.
This isn't specific to the Dynamis/Navigator, the same packet time applies ot all DCC systems. A big number for maximum running locos makes for good marketing I suppose, but it's absolutely impractical in the real world. NCE does 256, Digitrax does 120 - raw numbers you'd have to say NCE is better - but even 120, there can be a second or more delay between commands for one particular loco. Real world I'm pretty sure the delay numbers are much worse - I'm using baseline NMRA DCC packet transmission times and assuming 1 data packet per decoder.
The acceptable maximum delay goes down the more sound is used - no one want to hit the whistle button and not get a sound for 5 seconds.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I understand what you saying but I don't shop like that anymore...It took only twice to learn my lesson. you see my first investment into the DCC world was the digital commander set msr @ 269.00 bought @169.00 til this day I only found it at 179.00. so you got the command station at 53.00 but I got that plus two DCC locos and accessories. When I grew out of that and decided to go wireless I bought Dynamis receiver and handset MSR @ 345.00 Bought through Walthers @ 125.00 my first steamer (didn't know better) bought a spectrum 2-10-2 DCC and tsumi sound MSR 449.00 bought @ 235.00 at Walthers. after this I learned about auctions. like gomotorbids.com where I purchased two Spectrums steamer a 2-6-6-2 DCC and sound MSR 549.00 bought @ 138.00 and the other 2-10-2 DCC no sound MSR 249.00 bought @ 57.00. My point is that if you shop around 300.00 could mean 150.00 or less to me and all this is new in boxes and full warrenties. just like you e-z command, MSR 110.00 you bought at 53.00. OH buy the way I'm looking right now at ebay a dynamis new in box handset for 11.50
teekaho ...I can program 9,999 loco's, run up to 400 at one time...
...I can program 9,999 loco's, run up to 400 at one time...
That would be 40, not 400.
...Plus I can add boosters, hand units and more. Just like the rest of you with those more expensive setups...
You can not add any hand units to the Dynamis without upgrading it to the Pro Box which, at $200+, makes it one of those "more expensive setups." Even then you can only have a total of four hand units, personally not really what I would call a "Pro" system.
You are certainly correct that the Dynamis and its accessories can be purchased at incredible discounts from MSRP all over the web. One has to wonder why? I suspect that sales have not been all that brisk and there is an element of heavy discounting going on to gain some market traction. Very few folks show up here who like yourself are Dynamis users.
Again, I don't know why, but it seems that most of the better known specialist DCC on-line retailers don't carry the system. There are a lot of hobby retailers selling it, but not the kind of places you would go for expert DCC advice or help.
So not knocking the product at all for its technical capability, but it does not appear to me that Bachmann and or the Dynamis have yet managed to position themselves as significant players in the DCC market.
Just looked these up:
DCC TrainShop $159.95 List: $199.99
Power Cab System (Starter Sets)DCC TrainShop $155.95List: $199.95
Yes, you are saving a lot over those "expensive systems".
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
teekahoI understand what you saying but I don't shop like that anymore...It took only twice to learn my lesson. you see my first investment into the DCC world was the digital commander set msr @ 269.00 bought @169.00 til this day I only found it at 179.00. so you got the command station at 53.00 but I got that plus two DCC locos and accessories. When I grew out of that and decided to go wireless I bought Dynamis receiver and handset MSR @ 345.00 Bought through Walthers @ 125.00 my first steamer (didn't know better) bought a spectrum 2-10-2 DCC and tsumi sound MSR 449.00 bought @ 235.00 at Walthers. after this I learned about auctions. like gomotorbids.com where I purchased two Spectrums steamer a 2-6-6-2 DCC and sound MSR 549.00 bought @ 138.00 and the other 2-10-2 DCC no sound MSR 249.00 bought @ 57.00. My point is that if you shop around 300.00 could mean 150.00 or less to me and all this is new in boxes and full warrenties. just like you e-z command, MSR 110.00 you bought at 53.00. OH buy the way I'm looking right now at ebay a dynamis new in box handset for 11.50
teekaho,
Yep, auctions and discount places can save you quite a bit of money. And I have found some great deals of NIB items on eBay for as much as 60-70% off MSRP. However, the issue I have over the new Bachmann Dynamis isn't the cost; it's what you get with the cost.
$53 for a simple (simplified) DCC system I can live with. The enjoyment factor was night and day when I began running trains on my layout with DCC vs DC. Knowing that the E-Z Command wouldn't be my final system, I spent the following year enjoying DCC but also researching which DCC system I wanted to migrate to. By year's end the NCE Power Cab was just coming out, I liked the features that it had to offer, so I bought one discounted for $139.
Now, I may not have wireless with my Power Cab but I do have "tethered" portability. And with the Smart Booster (SB3a) connected to the power bus, I can now move around my layout by plugging and unplugging my Power Cab into a UTP panel. The SB3a also affords an increase of total output power from 1.7A to 5A, as well as additional cab addresses and recall stack capability.
Don't get me wrong, teekaho, wireless is a neat feature. However, since I only have a modest-sized layout, it's not really a necessity, nor a deal breaker for me. Besides, I think my current set up helps me feel more "connected" to my layout. LOL!
One other thing that I like is that I can use my Power Cab throttle at my bench for programming, at my layout as a throttle, or at a friend's house as a programmer or throttle. I also prefer the interface (i.e. buttons arrangement, menu, etc) of the Power Cab over the Dynamis. I only need one hand to operate the speed buttons or thumbwheel of the Power Cab. The Dynamis appears to be a two-handed throttle.
Again, teekaho, if you're happy with the Dynamis - wonderful! It all comes down to preference and the features that you're looking for and best meet your needs. I do, however, think that some DCC companies have better and/or less expensive upgrade paths for their systems than others (no matter where you end up purchasing items from) and Bachmann's is more limited, in that respect, than either NCE or Digitrax; the latter being the best in the business.
Ok I give up. I just wanted to be reinforced with my decision that I made a few years ago as a novice (which is still the same). lol... you see Bachmann was my first intro into DCC and everything was fairly cheap and since it is just me and no one to share my system with Bachmann works just fine for me. Plus I already have just about purchased all the accessories with the exception of the booster (which I need) and the pro box which I dont really need do to sharing abilities. how ever if I was to do it all over again it would be Digitrax . Oh by the way I stand corrected it is 40 not 400 just a miss print lol,,
teekaho ...works just fine for me...
...works just fine for me...
That right there is the most important feature of any DCC system, how does it work for YOU. For a single user wireless system, no other system I know of even comes close to the Dynamis's price point. There are reasons that the Dynamis would not satisfy my requirements, but there are people whose requirements it satisfies quite nicely. If it does what you need it to and you are happy with it, that' s what's important.
teekahoOk I give up. I just wanted to be reinforced with my decision that I made a few years ago as a novice (which is still the same). lol... you see Bachmann was my first intro into DCC and everything was fairly cheap and since it is just me and no one to share my system with Bachmann works just fine for me.
Again, that's the important thing, teeaho: It works for YOU and fits YOUR needs. My needs aren't the same as yours; nor are your needs my needs. Not any one DCC system is a one-size fits all solution.
And, as Robert pointed out, Bachmann has the least expensive route at going wireless. With my present set up, it would cost me another $200 or so to update to wireless.
You don't need "reinforced". Just go and enjoy your layout.
I know where you can pick up a Dynamis system cheap. Just dumpster dive their main office in Philly