If I could purchase some of this wire in 18-2 gauge, would that be ok to use as feeder wires off of 12ga bus wire?
I was discussing this with a Home Depot "Electrician" in the electrical aisle and he thought that the 18 gauge thermostat would be to thin to carry the 5 amp service of my power supply. I told him that some guys were using as low as 22 gauge and he looked at me like I was nuts.
I would like to use this because it is is solid wire and small so it might not be seen after I ballast my track. I would also solder it to the but around the layout but might us bus strips for my yard instead of having all those wires connected to the bus line.
Thanks
Brad
Solid wire does not accept solder as well as stranded wire. Therefore it usually requires more heat to get a good connection. Which means you can more easily damage your ties.
I use solid wire on occasion for screw connections.
Brad,
We are only talking a max of 5 amps at about 15 volts. The HD guy is talking about 120VAC home wiring. It should work, but I really feel that it is overkill. Get some 20-22 gauge stranded wire. It is more 'flexible' and works fine for feeders from the track to the DCC bus. Strip about 3/4" of wire, twist it and tin it with solder. Then use a needle nose pliers to bend it into shape to lay up against the rail. Once you paint the track and ballast, you will be hard pressed to see the feeders.
I went 'on-line' and ordered a spool of RED and BLACK for my feeders - a feeder for each piece of track! HD is good for#12 wire for the bus, but solid bell wire is too much of a pain to deal with - especially if it breaks at a kink. ..
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
Thanks for the reply's guys. I will switch everything over to stranded wire then. I have only bought 1 spool of solid wire from Radio Shack but I can take that back.
So 12 gauge stranded wire for the main bus and then 20-22 gauge for the feeders.
Jim, where did you order your wire through, in case I cant find what I need at HD, Lowes, or Menards?
This is an excellent source for the wire you need:
http://www.powerwerx.com/wire-cable/
Rich
Alton Junction
I don't have any problem with number 22 solid wire. I do, however, clean the oxidation off the side of the rail first with a wire brush and tin it before soldering the tinned wire on. All I have to do is touch it.
When you tin a wire, are you just melting solder onto the end before you solder it to the rail? Does the same thing need to be done attaching feeders to the main buss? I am about 3 weeks away from doing this. Thanks for clearing this up for me.
Curt Webb
The Late Great Pennsylvania Railroad
http://s1082.photobucket.com/albums/j372/curtwbb/
No problem soldering the thermostat wire, solid or not. That is what I used (18ga) for all of my drop feeders, and we're talking thousands of them. If you can get a good buy on it, okay to use it.
Larry
http://www.youtube.com/user/ClinchValleySD40
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52481330@N05/
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/page/1/ppuser/8745/sl/c
While I don't use a bus wire and have only two feeders for the entire layout, there's no reason to not use the thermostat wire. It's actually easier to solder solidly than stranded wire (who actually cleans all of the strands before soldering? ). The main reason for using stranded wire is for its flexibility, a characteristic not required for such a static application. It's also much easier to control when soldering to the rail, with no chance of a stray strand ending up in the wrong place. Clean the wire and tin it, as you would stranded wire, and soldering it to the rail and to the bus wire will be a snap.
Wayne
richhotrain Brad, This is an excellent source for the wire you need: http://www.powerwerx.com/wire-cable/ Rich
Thanks for the link Rich. What wire would be good to use? I am not sure which one would be good.
Curt Webb When you tin a wire, are you just melting solder onto the end before you solder it to the rail? Does the same thing need to be done attaching feeders to the main buss? I am about 3 weeks away from doing this. Thanks for clearing this up for me.
There are some good tutorials on youtube that show you this. There is one by flymanjg and it is series #7 I believe that he shows how he does it. I have watched it several times.
ClinchValleySD40 No problem soldering the thermostat wire, solid or not. That is what I used (18ga) for all of my drop feeders, and we're talking thousands of them. If you can get a good buy on it, okay to use it.
18ga wire for feeders in Ho and N scales is overkill, but if that's what you want to use, by all all means go for it. Thousands of drops??? How many feet of track? I have 600 ft of track (2 level, 23x12) with 22ga feeders every 10 or so feet and all rail joiners soldered, that's about 60 feeders. The buss is a mix of 14ga and 12ga. I've never had any power or DCC signal issues of any kind in the 10 plus years since it was wired.
To the poster that is "cleaning" wires. In the 45 years of soldering electronics and wiring layouts, i have never heard of anyone "cleaning" wire unless it was old and oxidized. Wire with the insulation freshly removed doesn't need any special cleaning, solid core or stranded. All you need is a hot clean iron and maybe some flux. And, once you twist stranded wire together (tightly) and tin it, it will solder to the rail as easily as solid wire and you have the advantage that the stranded wire won't kink or get nicked and break.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
Agreed. In over 40 years of soldering, mostly using Rosin core or separate liquid flux, the only wire I ever had trouble with was either soaked with oil or some other kind of contaminant that was cleaned with an alcohol bath, and once we had to try to solder some special audio cable that had some kind of silver colored metalic plating that solder wouldn't stick to. It was meant to be used with screw terminals or other kind of mechanical fastening. I have sometimes had to clean off new PC boards from China, from contaminated surfaces. Usually, they cleaned up with a quick burnishing with plain printer paper and alcohol. And also, had to use some very old resistors with leads that were black with oxidation. A few rubs with a pink ink eraser quickly did the job.
With regard to the OP comments on curent capacity of various sizes of wires, don't think a sales clerk has the same knowlege of a Journeyman electrician. While the capacity of a given size depends mostly on gage, and to some smaller degree on the total length,here are some capacities (AKA Ampacities) for some common wire sizes:
26 ga 4A
24 ga 6A
22 ga 8A
20 ga 10A
18 ga 15-18A
16 ga 24A
14 ga 33A
12 ga 45A
In most instances, just limit the total current flow through a given size wire to about 75 or 80% of the rating. So, for distances under 100', at least, 20 or 18 ga should carry 5 amps easily. Even 24 or 22 gage should work for short feeders.
By the way, is the track laid yet? If not you should solder the feeder wires to the bottom of the rails. Flex track has spaces reserved for it at the center of the length.
Springfield PA
I think doctorwayne is right, solid wire is fine if it won't be subject to alot of movement after the install. I also use solderless connectors (wire nuts) for many of my splices below the layout, something I never see done in this hobby. Makes it easier to change or troubleshoot than unsoldering. The key is to properly strip the wire, no nicks, and twist them firmly. And use the correct sized nut for the guage and quantity of the wires.
modelmaker51 To the poster that is "cleaning" wires. In the 45 years of soldering electronics and wiring layouts, i have never heard of anyone "cleaning" wire unless it was old and oxidized. Wire with the insulation freshly removed doesn't need any special cleaning, solid core or stranded. All you need is a hot clean iron and maybe some flux. And, once you twist stranded wire together (tightly) and tin it, it will solder to the rail as easily as solid wire and you have the advantage that the stranded wire won't kink or get nicked and break.
You're right, but for the minimal amount of wire needed for a layout, I often use a length left-over from other projects. If the end is already stripped (and has been sitting around for some time), I'd rather take the time to drag it through some fine sandpaper rather than snip off the old end. The main point is that the wire and the rail should be clean if it's to be soldered. I think that this is not fully understood by many attempting soldering for the first time.
Well, I can can count Electrician as one of my trade skills, and I have been wiring model trains with solid telephone and thermostat wire for years with no problems or failures.
Multi wire cable assemblies like CAT5 and thermostat wire make wiring much faster and easier to organize.
Sheldon.
Solid wire is FINE for feeders. The loosely twisted thermostat wire I got at Home Depot is #20, not #18, STILL plenty big for feeders. Dunno where this idea that solid wire won;t take solder as easily as stranded - with strnaded it's easy to get solder ont he outside that hasn't wicked all the way through the strands, when dealing with the larger sizes.
I use stranded for my main bus because it is far easier to pull around under the benchwork. Solid works fine, it's just more of a pain to work with, compared to the same size stranded.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
This comment is a little off topic but directly related. In a recent MR weekly video David Pop suggested when attaching feeder wires to tin the wires and then put some solder on the rail. Then place the feeder on the rail solder and hit with the soldering iron. Job done
As I'm working on my yard I found Pop's idea really makes it quick and easy to get the feeders attached.
Also as a newbie I used bell wire which happened to come with two wires, one red and one white. I think they are 18 or 20 gage and solid. They have worked well.
Happy Railroading.
Bob
Don't Ever Give Up