I have a 25 x 33 HO DC layout under construction and want to switch to DCC. I am running old PFM steam that I want to eventually put can motors in. I want to run up to 6 trains at a time in sessions. My wife gave me a NCE wireless controller for Christmas several years ago not realizing that you need boosters, command stations, power supplies etc. Because of the nature of my layout I think I need at least two power districts and I want untethered operation.
I would appreciate any comments/advice you have as to the pluses and minuses of NCE, Digitax, MRC, Lenz or any other system.
Thanks!
What do you have? Just the throttle or the complete system. Not sure I understand your question.
Are you looking for decoder information or about the systems?
Have your locomotives been converted to DCC ?
We use an NCE PowerHouse Pro DCC system with 3 additiional 5-Amp boosters, 3 receiving antennas, and 7 radio throttles at our large HO scale club layout.
Each NCE Wireless ProCab has a recall stack of 6 locomotives or consists, so we can conceivably run 42 trains at one time if it were humanly possible to keep track of that many at once. We usually run only 3 or 4 separate trains at once, even during an open house.
The only drawback to wireless throttles is that they tend to eat batteries -- 4 AAA cells per throttle. They do have a battery saver mode that shuts them off if no buttons are pressed within a set period of time.
Since we installed this system, no one wants to use anything different, especially not DC block control, even though the layout can still be ran that way. Most club members who have used the NCE ProCab radio throttles at the club have decided that's what they'll use on their home layouts when the convert to DCC.
Viginian I have a 25 x 33 HO DC layout under construction and want to switch to DCC. I am running old PFM steam that I want to eventually put can motors in. I want to run up to 6 trains at a time in sessions. My wife gave me a NCE wireless controller for Christmas several years ago not realizing that you need boosters, command stations, power supplies etc. Because of the nature of my layout I think I need at least two power districts and I want untethered operation. I would appreciate any comments/advice you have as to the pluses and minuses of NCE, Digitax, MRC, Lenz or any other system.
There are probably more threads on the pluses and minuses of the systems you mention on this forum than any other topic, possibly more than all other topics combined.
I had planned to do just that until a dealer, who sells both digitrax and NCE told me that NCE radio is slow to respond to commands because it cannot communicate from cab to command station and from command station to cab simultaneously. He recommends Digitrax duplex super chief. I have run a NCE tethered settup and really like it and from what research I have done decided I liked NCE .... until I just talked to the dealer.
All I have is the throttle and none of the engines, or anything else, is converted to DCC. I had planned to go ahead with a NCE system until the dealer I called today to order from told me that NCE cannot communicate from cab to command station and from command station to cab simultaneously and that the Digitrax duplex super chief settup can. this is why I am seeking further information. The dealer sells both NCE and Digitrax
Thanks for your response. Your comments are appreciated and your last sentence pretty well says it all as far as I am concerned.
I had my mind set on a NCE system and contacted a dealer today to order a system. He told me that NCE cannot duplex (as he called it) and said their radio system is slow to respond to commands because it cannot communicate from cab to command station and from command station to cab simulataineously. He went on to say that a Digitrax duplex super chief system can do that and is a lot faster to respond.
How long will a set of batteries last? Do the smaller cabs use the same number of batteries? Do each of your boosters represent one power district or do you have them broken down into smaller ones?
NCE did have radio issues that were resolved several years ago. I was a guest at a large layout using NCE wireless three years ago or so, after the update that fixed the issues, and it worked great. The NCE system is duplex, thought the throttles that don't have a display are simplex, since there's no need for the feedback. It's not an issue. It is interesting that your dealer makes an issue of this, since Digitrax joined the duplex party well after NCE.
The only way to know how the systems respond is to use them in real life. I think your dealer is passing on old information, or perhaps has more motivation to sell Digitrax. Either system will work great.
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
I'm a dyed in the wool Digitrax user for over 15 years. While I'd just love to see another Digitrax convert, your dealer really doesn't know what he's talking about.
NCE does duplex. They did it first because they had to. Both systems would suit you well but if you already have a significant piece, sticking with NCE may be your best bet. I would.
Martin Myers
My guess is that the dealer is partial to Digitrax and is trying to steer you in that direction.
I have an NCE Power House Pro 5 amp system with two tethered Pro Cab throttles.
I am about to go wireless by adding an RB02 base station and a Pro Cab R wireless throttle.
If you already have the wireless NCE throttle, just purchase the rest of the necessary NCE equipment to get it up and running.
Go on Yahoo and register on the NCE DCC forum. The guys on there can advise you what you need to purchase and how to get up and running.
Rich
Alton Junction
Viginian I have a 25 x 33 HO DC layout under construction and want to switch to DCC. I am running old PFM steam that I want to eventually put can motors in. I want to run up to 6 trains at a time in sessions. My wife gave me a NCE wireless controller for Christmas several years ago not realizing that you need boosters, command stations, power supplies etc. Because of the nature of my layout I think I need at least two power districts and I want untethered operation. I would appreciate any comments/advice you have as to the pluses and minuses of NCE, Digitax, MRC, Lenz or any other system. Thanks!
NCE has a great variety of DCC systems and their Customer Service Department is second to none. Larry is infamous, in a positive way, as someone who picks up the phone on the first ring and is always ready to help and advise.
As you indicated, you need a command station, at least one booster and a power supply. NCE has all of those products in both wired and wireless formats.
Also, there is a wide base of knowledgeable modelers who are ready to help you both on this forum and on the Yahoo NCE DCC forum. If you stick with DCC, be sure to register on the Yahoo site.
There is also a Wiring for DCC forum on Yahoo as well. That is another site worth registration as a member.
Thanks for the input .... it's reassuring to hear from someone who has tried the system. Have you had much trouble with the system you have?
Thanks for your comments Rich. It appears that NCE duplexes as well and, like you, there seems to be a lot of NCE users out there who are perfectly satisfied. That coupled with their customer service makes me think I'll stick with NCE.
Jan
I have the Digitrax Super Chief. I love it and wouldn't run anything else, but your statement, " I have run a NCE tethered setup and really like it and from what research I have done decided I liked NCE ", says it all. If you are happy with the NCE, why would you change?
While I like Digitrax better, I will never run YOUR trains. YOU are the one who must like the system used on your layout.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Viginian I had planned to do just that until a dealer, who sells both digitrax and NCE told me that NCE radio is slow to respond to commands because it cannot communicate from cab to command station and from command station to cab simultaneously. He recommends Digitrax duplex super chief. I have run a NCE tethered settup and really like it and from what research I have done decided I liked NCE .... until I just talked to the dealer. Thanks!
My first advice to you is never to get your "what to buy" advice from someone who is selling something. It sounds to me like his thought process went, "How can I make the most money off of this guy? OK, now how do I justify it?".
All the major manufacturers have quality products, and you will find ardent advocates (and detractors) for all of them. It really boils down to what features you can get for the money, and how well you like the "human interface" portion of the system.
If you already have an expensive piece of one system, I'd expand on that.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
The question at hand is really one of Simplex vs half duplex vs full duplex. Simplex is one way only. No ifs, ands, or buts. Half duplex is two-way, but only one side at a time - like a walkie-talkie. Full duplex is also two way, but the system can transmit and receive at the same time. I'd liek to see a test proof of this, but I don;t think ANY of the common brand radio systems do full duplex - the wired portion of the command busses don't do full duplex so how or why would the radio portion? It's really a non-issue for train control.
Next issue is the bus type. Loconet for Digitrax is a peer to peer network with colission detection, similar to a slow version of ethernet. NCE uses a polled system, not like but it could be compared with token ring (there's no 'token' though). Under a smaller load, 10-15 throttles, the Loconet will be faster. The polled system plods along at the same speed no matter if there is 1 cab or 20 connected (some adjustment is made to to skip unused addresses when polling - MRC pretty clearly always polls every throttle, hence the switch ont he command station to set the number of cabs you have). The peer network gradually slows down as more and more devices are added, the polled network stays at pretty much the same speed. The maximum limit on the pee network is mostly a factor of how much lag cna be tolerated, the polled system has an upper limit of how many addresses can be polled in a reasonable cycle.
FOr small home layouts, there will be no noticeable difference. FOr medium and larger home layouts, Loconet will almost always be faster. For large club-size layouts, lag can become a factor particularly if the same bus is used for signals and track detection - things you can do with a single Loconet on a home layout.
Chief advantages of Loconet are a singel bus for throttles, block detection, and signals (for typical home layouts), and the wealth of third party compatible (and approved by Digitrax) products so you can use signal controllers from Team Digital, a panel controller from CML, computer interface from RR-CirKits, etc. Even DIY interface boards, should you be interested. None of the other systems has such a large third party support.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.