I hooked up a second DS64 to my layout and the two of them started going crazy so I unplugged one and discounted the track feed. I tried to change the turnout IDs using a NCE PowerCab.
I got confused applying Digitrax terms to NCE and I don’t know what I did, but now DS64 is running an endless loop of throwing each turnout one at a time. First it goes through each turnout one by one turning each ON and then back through still one at a time turning them OFF. Then about 30 seconds later it starts the cycle over again.
I’ve tried resetting the factory defaults and I also changed the board ID without any improvement.
Is it possible that somehow during my confusion over the terms, that I might have started a macro in the PowerCab itself?
Do you by any chance have anything hooked up to the switch inputs? If they're connected to normally closed switches I can see a problem.
Also when you set the address for the outputs you do all 4 the same time. I beleive you hold the ID button down until the green light flashes. Then you send a switch command to each of the 4 address' you'll be using. The green light will flash faster with each address and command entered and stop after the last one.
Springfield PA
I don’t have anything connected to the input although I connected wires to each input to be connected to pushbuttons sometime in the future, but the opposite end is unconnected to anything.
One thing I should mention is that as I was trying to program the outputs by pressing the ID button, is that I could never get the light to stop flashing and I think that’s when things started acting up. I turn off all the power trying to get the flashing to stop but it came right back on when I turned on the power. That’s when I started trying to reset it with the ops button.
Once the light starts flashing you program each of the 4 outputs. You must program all of them. When you are done the last one the flashing stops and the outputs should respond to the programmed address.
Hamltnblue Once the light starts flashing you program each of the 4 outputs. You must program all of them. When you are done the last one the flashing stops and the outputs should respond to the programmed address.
I’ll give it another try, but the more fool with this, the more I think it’s the PowerCab. I’ve been trying to find a reset in the PowerCab and haven’t been successful
FUnny thing, just helped a friend set up the first two DS64's that I've ever touched. FOr one thign, the manual is alittle off witht he timings for holdign the buttons, at least the version that came with his. 10 seconds for the board ID change? It was a LOT more than 10 seconds untilt he fast blink turned into a slow blink and I could let go of the button. 3 seconds on the ID button to set it in address mode? It was definitely more than that.
The only one that seemed as described is pressing the Ops button to get into OpSw mode to configure it. Try another reset first, hold the Ops button until the Ops and ID LEDs start alternating. Dial up switch 7 and set it to Normal (or is it reverse?). Remove power and reconnect the DS64.
If you are using TOrtoise type motors, you have to repeat this procedure using switch address 1 to set the mode of the DS64 for stall motors. Press the Ops button again untilt he LEDs stop alternating.
Now hold down ID until the ID LED starts to flash slowly. The next switch address you use on your throttle will the address stored for output #1 and the LED will flash a little faster. Then do the address for output #2, the LED flashes faster still, etc, until after the 4th address it goes back to the 'heartbeat' blink. When you select each switch address, it doesn't matter if you hit the normal or reverse option, either one works for this, the DS64 is just looking for any switch command on the desired address.
That should get you started.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Thanks Randy. I’ve been working on this problem all day and I’m growing tired. I may have better luck tomorrow.
I thought I was getting some place while trying to reset the PowerCab because when I was in the programming mode the turnouts stopped switching on their own. Only after I finally figured out how to reset the NCE system and went back to normal did the turnouts start up again.
Oh and I did go back and reset the ID address. I wish they gave an example because I don’t know what number to put in so I used “1”, “2”, “3”, and “4” for the last output. I’m pretty sure it worked because the blinking green light stopped.
Well, there's on the order of 2048 numbers you can use...
I like to avoid using 1 for anything, since some devices default to 1. You should come up with a scheme and keep it recorded in your layout documentation (your what? Yes, you should write down configuration items about your layout, draw wiring diagrams, etc. because 5 years from now you'll never remember everything you did or why you did it). If no one town or location has more than 10 turnouts, you could use 2-digit addresses and make each town a different first digit - so for example SOuthtown would have turnouts with addresses 10,11,12, and 13. Nextown would be 20,21,22, etc. Or follow a common prototype method and number them based on the milepost.
Thanks Randy I’ll do that.!
Anyway back to the problem.
I swapped out the DS64 with another one that has never been used and it is NOT the DS64.
So now I need to figure out what I did to the PowerCab
Do you still have another DS64 hooked up and if so, do you have a Loconet connection between them? The reason I ask is if you somehow accidentally programmed routes on the other DS64 it could be triggering the new one through the Loconet connection.
There's an option switch on the DS64 that can be set two ways. You can set the DS64 to throw all switches at power up to the position they were in when the system was powered down. Or you can set it to only throw the switches on your command after power up. Did you set this Opt SW?
He's still at the point of programming.
As randy noted you have to hold the ID button down longer than they say in the manual. Just hold it until you see the green light flash slow. With the NCE power Cab you of course use aux commands which is the same as switch commands. There is no loconet used in this instance since it's NCE.
Also Johnny B, are you using torti's or twin coil switch machines. There is a setting in the DS64 for each, as well as different wiring.
I sure hope you're not using Peco or other kind of twin coil switch machines. There is a known issue with the combination of NCE and twin coil switch machines on DS64s, automatcially throwing switches on power up.
How do I know this? I had problems with all 6 of the DS64s, and I have Peco switch machines and NCE PHP. I finally got rid of them and installed NCE switch-ITs, and everything works very well now.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
CSX Robert Do you still have another DS64 hooked up and if so, do you have a Loconet connection between them? The reason I ask is if you somehow accidentally programmed routes on the other DS64 it could be triggering the new one through the Loconet connection.
Robert you found me. I was getting anxious anyone would be able to help me, so I posted on a couple of forums. That way I wouldn’t miss anybody that might have a solution.
Well anyway you probably already know the answer to your question, but for the benefit of everybody else, I never had both DS64s powered up at the same time.
So I guess now that I know for sure that it is the PowerCab itself that’s doing it, I probably need to start a new thread about the Crazy PowerCab so that the NCE experts will take notice.
I’m going to search around to see if I can find any other posts about starting resetting the PowerCab defaults.
retsignalmtr There's an option switch on the DS64 that can be set two ways. You can set the DS64 to throw all switches at power up to the position they were in when the system was powered down. Or you can set it to only throw the switches on your command after power up. Did you set this Opt SW? Yes I did give that a try and I also reset the DS64 with Ops button Motley I sure hope you're not using Peco or other kind of twin coil switch machines. I’m using Kato Unitrack turnouts. Anyway I guess you guys didn’t see my earlier post announcing my discovery of it not being the DS64 at all. It turns out that I inadvertently programmed something into the PowerCab that causes it to loop through each Turnout. I don’t know yet how to set the PowerCab back to its default settings.
retsignalmtr There's an option switch on the DS64 that can be set two ways. You can set the DS64 to throw all switches at power up to the position they were in when the system was powered down. Or you can set it to only throw the switches on your command after power up. Did you set this Opt SW?
Yes I did give that a try and I also reset the DS64 with Ops button
Motley I sure hope you're not using Peco or other kind of twin coil switch machines.
I’m using Kato Unitrack turnouts.
Anyway I guess you guys didn’t see my earlier post announcing my discovery of it not being the DS64 at all. It turns out that I inadvertently programmed something into the PowerCab that causes it to loop through each Turnout. I don’t know yet how to set the PowerCab back to its default settings.
This document talks about resetting the powercab to default.
http://www.ncedcc.com/pdf/PCab%20Update%201_28.pdf
Thanks, I keep reading that the PowerCab is supposed to reset, but it’s just not ending the constant switching of the turnouts. I’m at my ends wit about this. I have a Zephyr on its way and I was really hoping that it would have showed up today, because that would end any doubts that I might have about the PowerCab.
There is one other thing that’s been a problem all along and that’s the 6 wire cord connector. I don't know why I didn't think about this before, but I noticed that it sometimes causes my PowerCab to restart depending on which side I have plugged into the throttle and I’ve been flipping it around to prevent that from happening. I’m now wondering if a loose wire or wires in the connecter are shorting. I don’t have an extra cable to check it out right now and I might have to order one just to find out.
Anyway I’m just about to send a message to the NCE support people and see if they can help me.
Ding ding ding, we may have a winner. I bet it's the wire you're having problems with. I've seen lot's of weird issues because of the wires.
Replace that wire and report back.
MotleyI sure hope you're not using Peco or other kind of twin coil switch machines. There is a known issue with the combination of NCE and twin coil switch machines on DS64s, automatcially throwing switches on power up. How do I know this? I had problems with all 6 of the DS64s, and I have Peco switch machines and NCE PHP. I finally got rid of them and installed NCE switch-ITs, and everything works very well now.
That behavior's known, but it's not an "issue". The DS64's default is that the outputs are powered at startup.
And if you don't like that default behavior, all you have to do is set OPSW 6 to "closed" (I believe that's "normal" in NCE parlance) to disable it.
That's what I've done on all seven of the DS64's on my layout, and once the final two are purchased/configured/installed they'll be set the same way.
Works fine, at least for me.
For more info, see page 11 of the DS64 instructions.
Stevert Motley: I sure hope you're not using Peco or other kind of twin coil switch machines. There is a known issue with the combination of NCE and twin coil switch machines on DS64s, automatcially throwing switches on power up. How do I know this? I had problems with all 6 of the DS64s, and I have Peco switch machines and NCE PHP. I finally got rid of them and installed NCE switch-ITs, and everything works very well now. That behavior's known, but it's not an "issue". The DS64's default is that the outputs are powered at startup. And if you don't like that default behavior, all you have to do is set OPSW 6 to "closed" (I believe that's "normal" in NCE parlance) to disable it. That's what I've done on all seven of the DS64's on my layout, and once the final two are purchased/configured/installed they'll be set the same way. Works fine, at least for me. For more info, see page 11 of the DS64 instructions.
Motley: I sure hope you're not using Peco or other kind of twin coil switch machines. There is a known issue with the combination of NCE and twin coil switch machines on DS64s, automatcially throwing switches on power up. How do I know this? I had problems with all 6 of the DS64s, and I have Peco switch machines and NCE PHP. I finally got rid of them and installed NCE switch-ITs, and everything works very well now.
I did try to set OPSW 6 to closed and it didn't work. And I tried it on all 6 of the DS64s I had. When I called Digitrax they said it was an issue with their program code, and there was no fix.
What DCC system, and switch machines are you using?
MotleyI did try to set OPSW 6 to closed and it didn't work. And I tried it on all 6 of the DS64s I had. When I called Digitrax they said it was an issue with their program code, and there was no fix. What DCC system, and switch machines are you using?
Interesting. I have a Digitrax Super Chief and use Tortii, and I can turn that behavior on and off at will using OPSW 6.
I have a DS64 that I haven't set up yet (haven't even opened the package), so it's still configured for twin-coil machines. I'll leave it that way and do some OPSW 6 testing, to see if it behaves any differently when it's set up for twin-coil switch machines as opposed to stall motors.
JohnnyB. The next couple of posts are from a thread on the Digitrax Yahoo Group.
They were using Kato coil machines but it's a similar problem. The poster also notes a reset procedure.
To: Digitrax Technical Support>> Approximately eighteen to twenty months past I installed a network of> twenty-two DS64 units for a customer. All of the DS64 are configured to> operate Kato N scale Uni-Track solenoid turnouts. The installation was> completed without any difficulties of any description.>> The DS64 are not connected to the Loconet as 'read back' is not required.> All of the DS64 are connected to the trackage. A 14vdc bus is used to source> 'Auxiliary Power' for each DS64. Each DS64 also has four buttons remote to> the fascia for individual channel control. This has been done to enable> fascia control and throttle control of the specific turnout.>> After about ten months of use the operation of some of the DS64 became> erratic in that some DS64 would not respond to the fascia buttons and the> specific address of some DS64 had changed or duplicated among several DS64.>> I could not find anything wrong with the layout in general or any of the> Digitrax equipment in particular. The fix for this situation was to 'reset'> and 'reprogram' every DS64 in the network. After the 'reset' and 'reprogram'> the DS64 worked fine until recently (an additional fifteen or more months)> when the very same problem returned.>> Given that the DS64 worked as advertised when installed the only OPSW setup> that was done at installation was to set the specific channel address. I> have noticed that when the layout power was turned 'On' there is a cycling> of the majority of the Kato Uni-Track turnouts, indicating that the DS64 is> getting a random 'trigger' from somewhere.>> After the first 'problem' each DS64 was 'reset' with OPSW07 then> specifically programmed as per channel requirement.>> This time, to perhaps permanently resolve the problem, the following OPSW> are going to be used;> 1) OPSW07 to 'reset' the DS64.> 2) OPSW06 to 'closed' to disable automatic cycling of the DS64 at power> 'On'.> 3) OPSW08 to 'closed' to eliminate the possibility of several DS64> overloading the source power. This should be redundant if OPSW06 is> functioning as intended.> 4) OPSW14 to 'closed' to eliminate the possibility of random response to the> status of the disconnected Loconet ports.>> I ask that you at 'Technical Support' review this message and advise me of> any steps that might resolve the tendency of the DS64 units in the network> to reconfigure themselves.
This is not a new problem. I don't think Digitrax has a fix for it.>> When the DS64 is connected to the track DCC, noise from the track DCC,> caused by tiny shorts, etc. can reprogram the DS64, trigger outputs and even> burn out turnout controllers requiring only momentary pulses. The same> problem applies to LS150's.>> I cannot talk about other products, since I have a separate 3A DCC booster> installed and all turnout controllers are connected to that source now.>>>> You will have two options. Remove the DS64 from the DCC and add the Loconet> or create a clean DCC source which cannot be interrupted by shorts, etc.>>>> Sorry about the bad news.
But if you leave the DCC signal to be taken from track, the problem isstill present; you still run the risk of noise to the DS64 because you are stillon the track/signal combo. You moved the power source but did not remove thereset source, crap on the track/signal combo. You are also adding a possibleground loop problem.The only true way out is a separate power source and Loconet for the comnands.Then the reset issue should be resolved, you are not using track for DCC signal.
Motley Ding ding ding, we may have a winner. I bet it's the wire you're having problems with. I've seen lot's of weird issues because of the wires. Replace that wire and report back.
I have a friend that installs communication equipment and he said those type of cables like the one I have aren’t very good and they usually toss them and use something else to minimize problems. He didn’t have any like mine at the moment so he made me a cable out of Cat5.
I plugged it in and the craziness STOPPED. So I guess that was it. After a half an hour I changed the address of the 1st DS64 and changed the outputs to “21”,”22”,”23” & “24”. After testing it out and seeing that it seems to be working, I hooked power up to the second DS64, changed its outputs to “25”,”26”,27” & “28” and tested it out. It’s been a little over an hour since I replaced the cable and not a peep out of the turnouts.
I don’t understand how the wiring and logic works, but the thing that set me off course was the perfectly timed sequencing of the turnout one by one. If it had been erratic and all over the place, I might have thought about the cord earlier, but it was like it was programmed to function like that.
Hamltnblue But if you leave the DCC signal to be taken from track, the problem isstill present; you still run the risk of noise to the DS64 because you are stillon the track/signal combo. You moved the power source but did not remove thereset source, crap on the track/signal combo. You are also adding a possibleground loop problem.The only true way out is a separate power source and Loconet for the comnands.Then the reset issue should be resolved, you are not using track for DCC signal.
Well this is not so good news for NCE users who want to use their throttle to control the turnouts. I guess one could remove the track connections and use a computer with a LocoNet buffer, but I wonder if there might be a noise filter available.
That’s really too bad because the only reason I bought my PowerCab was its size and the portability factor. My layout is made up stackable portable modules and I liked the idea of the PowerCab being small enough to put in my pocket.
I did buy the Zephyr last week which should show up any day now, so that will solve the track noise problem at least for this layout. I have plans to build another portable standalone Code 55 layout and I wanted to use the PowerCab on it, so now I know I’ll have to use another Turnout control system for that layout if I decide to keep the PowerCab.
And I also want to thank everyone else who offered advice and provided the information here. This has really been a learning experience.
Oh man! Glad you finally figured out what the problem was JohnnyB. I didn't even know you can use Cat5 for the cords for NCE. Now I need to go try that myself.
Did your friend use an RJ11 connector on the Cat5? And what wires did he use?
I'm still curious to see if Steve has the same problem with his Digitrax system using twin coil switch machines. Or if it's just an issue with NCE, twin coil switch machines, and the DS64s.
Motley Oh man! Glad you finally figured out what the problem was JohnnyB. I didn't even know you can use Cat5 for the cords for NCE. Now I need to go try that myself. Did your friend use an RJ11 connector on the Cat5? And what wires did he use? I'm still curious to see if Steve has the same problem with his Digitrax system using twin coil switch machines. Or if it's just an issue with NCE, twin coil switch machines, and the DS64s.
He threw this thing together so fast I didn’t see how he did it, but I’m assuming that he just cut off the two extra wires and I remember him mentioning something about R12. I still have it running and I haven’t had any problems yet. I kind of lost track of time so I don’t know how long it’s been since I replaced it
I might ask him to make me a couple more short ones to use for my LocoNet whenever my Zephyr gets here. I think if it does not show up by tomorrow I’m going to call.
OK yep Cat5 has 6 wires on it. So he must have just made a straight through cable, and used an RJ12 connector.
But please do ask him, and let me know. I was going to buy some replacement cable, but I can get Cat5 for free at my work.
here is a photo:
Oh it is definitely Cat5 cable because it says it on the cable.