For the time being, my layout is 30 feet from my PC. I will probably get a laptop after Christmas. To use Decoder pro, I want to place a length of flextrack at my computer location and run a length of wire from the command stations program track output to that flex track. Would there be too much signal loss to operate effectively? Should it be shielded?
30 feet of USB or 9 pin cable is too expensive for a few months use.
BTW I have an NCE power pro and a Kespan USB adaptor.
73
Bruce in the Peg
Bruce,
My club's portable programming track has a 25 foot piece of 18 ga cable between it and the programming output on the command station.
30 feet should be OK, just go a little larger on the wire. 18ga wire should be plenty. We use lamp cord for our club track.
Martin Myers
30 feet of wire from the command station to the program track is no problem - but 30 feet is probably too much for a serial cable. Back in the day we used to run them longer, but they were VERY low speed and heavily shielded.
I guess I am confused - if the ocmputer is 30 feet from the layout, how would using a 30 foot wire for the program track fix the issue without ALSO having a 30 foot serial cable?
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
if you get a new laptop, i think you need to avoid windows 7 home premium, i bought a new dell XPS16 and NOTHING i have (PR3, LOK sound programmer and locobuffer USB ) work on that operating system. my techy brother informs me that home premium does not support virtual comports!! i have a dell mini running windows XP and that can atleast see the PR3 and locobuffer ( but i'm struggling with the settings ) no joy with the LOK programmer though.
I can find absolutely no reference to this supposed limitation in Home Premium. I've had no issue installing my Locobuffer with a USB to serial cable or my PR3 on multiple Windows 7 machines, but they are all Ultimate, not Home Premium.
Many netbooks do not have the power available on the USB ports to provde power for those devices which are powered from the USB port. Or it could just be a power profile setting keeping the USB ports depowered to maximize battery life.
Randy, you think YOU"RE confused? NOT. I just wasn't thinking clearly. Should I be looking for a laptop with "ultimate" of get a used one with XP?
Although I have a Digitrax system, I do have a test track at my workbench about 20' feet from the command station. I have an old desktop PC (Windows XP) running Decoder Pro from a Digitrax MS100. To program sound decoders I purchased a PowerPax to boost the programing signal and have it installed at the work bench. I use 18 ga wire. It works great with no problems.
I laso have a Digitrax PR3 and run Decoder Pro with a Laptop (Windows Vista), with no problems. I have a small portable programing track connected to the PR3.
I have not tried Decoder Pro with Windows 7
.
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
Just a note that the new improved Zephyr has increased the power to Program Trac, so it does blast mode programming. Plug the LocoBuffer-USBI into the Zephyr and the laptop and just run a separate Loconet cable to the nearest UP5. The same way you would connect a command station and a booster. John
locoworksmy techy brother informs me that home premium does not support virtual comports!!
BZZZT!!! Wrong answer.
My PR3 worked fine with the Win7 Ultimate Beta (32-bit) when I tried that OS on the layout computer.
It works fine with Win7 Home Premium (32 bit) now permanently installed on the layout computer.
It also works fine with Win7 Home Premium (64 bit) on my home office computer.
And, it also works fine with Win7 Home Premium on my ancient ThinkPad Z60m laptop (no Aero, though ).
Methinks your brother may not be as much of a "techy" as someone wants to give him credit for.
I spent I don't know how much time checking up on that whole issue, to absolutely no avail. My next step would be to build a virtuial machine with Home Premium and try to install my PR3. What Windows 7 does NOT support are virtual LPT ports for parallel printers - seeing as any new printer is either USB or network attached, it's no big deal.
DecoderPro works just fine on my desktop or my laptop, both with 64-bit WIndows 7 Ultimate. As does the Digitrax Soundloader program and also the DigiIPL to update throttle firmware
Bruce, XP is a dead end, soon to be unsupported. It's ANCIENT now. If you buy a new computer, get it with Windows 7. Which edition depends on what you plan to do witht he machine. Connect to some sort of internet connection and get online? Home Premium will be fine. Try to get a system with 4GB RAM, laptops are generally limited for upgrade options so if you get less now and go to upgrade later you will be throwing out the old memory. You'll then be ready for 64-bit. Every program I've tried works fine in 64 bit Windows 7 sounless you have some really specialized software that might not work, you might as well get 64 bit.
Stevert locoworks: my techy brother informs me that home premium does not support virtual comports!! BZZZT!!! Wrong answer. My PR3 worked fine with the Win7 Ultimate Beta (32-bit) when I tried that OS on the layout computer. It works fine with Win7 Home Premium (32 bit) now permanently installed on the layout computer. It also works fine with Win7 Home Premium (64 bit) on my home office computer. And, it also works fine with Win7 Home Premium on my ancient ThinkPad Z60m laptop (no Aero, though ). Methinks your brother may not be as much of a "techy" as someone wants to give him credit for.
locoworks: my techy brother informs me that home premium does not support virtual comports!!
possibly?? but i did have a google on the subject and home doesn't do virtual comports. maybe if you upgraded from XP to 7 home then the com port drivers may still exist?? the XPS has a powered USB port and there is NO joy from there either. it may well be ME, but i've ordered the upgrade to Ultimate and if it doesn't work then i won't be happy.
anybody out there got it running on windows 7 home premium on a DELL XPS16 laptop with a native windows 7 install? no XP or Vista on there to be upgraded..
johncolley Just a note that the new improved Zephyr has increased the power to Program Trac, so it does blast mode programming. Plug the LocoBuffer-USBI into the Zephyr and the laptop and just run a separate Loconet cable to the nearest UP5. The same way you would connect a command station and a booster. John
The old Zephyr does this too. Bruce ditched his Digitrax and went to NCE. You can mod the PH Pro command station to increase the power to the program track - they use a light bulb as a current limiter so you just put more light bulbs in parallel. Yes light bulbs - I have no idea why they didn't just use a resistor.
locoworks Stevert: locoworks: my techy brother informs me that home premium does not support virtual comports!! BZZZT!!! Wrong answer. My PR3 worked fine with the Win7 Ultimate Beta (32-bit) when I tried that OS on the layout computer. It works fine with Win7 Home Premium (32 bit) now permanently installed on the layout computer. It also works fine with Win7 Home Premium (64 bit) on my home office computer. And, it also works fine with Win7 Home Premium on my ancient ThinkPad Z60m laptop (no Aero, though ). Methinks your brother may not be as much of a "techy" as someone wants to give him credit for. possibly?? but i did have a google on the subject and home doesn't do virtual comports. maybe if you upgraded from XP to 7 home then the com port drivers may still exist?? the XPS has a powered USB port and there is NO joy from there either. it may well be ME, but i've ordered the upgrade to Ultimate and if it doesn't work then i won't be happy. anybody out there got it running on windows 7 home premium on a DELL XPS16 laptop with a native windows 7 install? no XP or Vista on there to be upgraded..
Stevert: locoworks: my techy brother informs me that home premium does not support virtual comports!! BZZZT!!! Wrong answer. My PR3 worked fine with the Win7 Ultimate Beta (32-bit) when I tried that OS on the layout computer. It works fine with Win7 Home Premium (32 bit) now permanently installed on the layout computer. It also works fine with Win7 Home Premium (64 bit) on my home office computer. And, it also works fine with Win7 Home Premium on my ancient ThinkPad Z60m laptop (no Aero, though ). Methinks your brother may not be as much of a "techy" as someone wants to give him credit for.
Win7 may not support virtual parallel (LPT) ports, as Randy mentioned, but that has no effect on the virtual serial (COM) port as used by the PR3.
Besides, the Win7 "upgrade" install from XP actually performs a clean install after checking that the existing XP install is valid. So no, the XP com port drivers wouldn't "still exist" on an XP to Win7 upgrade.
This is just a hunch, and I could be way off base, but I suspect that the problem you're having may be related to letting Windows install it's drivers for the PR3, rather than installing the Digitrax-supplied drivers as outlined in the directions. The Windows drivers (from any version of Windows) absolutely WON'T work for the PR3.
i made that mistake first time round, xp gives you an easy option to pick your files to install, 7 just does what it wants if you let it, but i did uninstall and then do it again and install from the little CD. NO joy.
I run my PR3 with windows 7 64 bit with no problems.
Also the max distance for the RS-232 protocol is 15 meters (45 feet). 30 feet should be just fine. I would however just put the PR3 next to the computer and run the loconet the 30 feet. Makes more sense and allows you to have the program track at the computer.
Edit: If you have a problem with windows 7 try running the program in compatibility mode by right clicking on the setup file and select troubleshoot compatibility.
Springfield PA
locoworks i made that mistake first time round, xp gives you an easy option to pick your files to install, 7 just does what it wants if you let it, but i did uninstall and then do it again and install from the little CD. NO joy.
You can tell if it's installed properly by going into Device Manager and expanding the "Ports (COM & LPT) section. When you plug the PR3 in, another COM port should appear after a second or two, and when you unplug it, that COM port will disappear (that also tells you which COM port you should assign in your software).
And if you right-click on it, select Properties, and go to the Driver tab, it should say the "Driver Provider" is Digitrax.
The only other thing I can think of, is to try a different USB cable. It's a standard A-B USB cable, like you'd use for a printer or scanner, so it shouldn't be hard to find one you can try at least temporarily.
But it's certainly not a Win7 incompatibility. Lots of folks use their PR3's with Win7, including me.
SOmehow we drifted into PR3's and Loconet - Bruce has neither of these, he uses an NCE PowerPro system, straight serial port to the command station. With a USB adapter because his computer, like most new ones, doesn't have a real serial port. 30 feet might be withint 'spec' but you need a good cable and a slow data rate. I think the PowerPro operates at 9600bps so the slow is covered. But Bruce didn;t want to buy a long cable since this is only temporary, when he gets a new laptop it will be right next to the command station. Keyspan adapters have drivers for Windows 7, so there should be no problem.
FOr the other people with PR3's, it is absolutely critical to follow the driver installation isntructiosn EXPLICITLY. Pretty much the same for any USB device in WIndows. WIndows tries to be too helpful and automatically install stuff when it sees somethign it thinks it recognizes - in this case the USB chip used int he PR3. But the automatically loaded driver is NOT the right one for the PR3. The one to use is the one marked as the Vista driver on the Digitrax website - VIsta drivers tend to be different than XP drivers, and Windows 7 is basically Vista under the hood with the annoying stuff fixed. I suspect a similar issue with the Loksound Programmer. If there is not a Vista/Windows 7 driver available for the device, it's never going to work in Windows 7.
Hamltnblue I run my PR3 with windows 7 64 bit with no problems. Also the max distance for the RS-232 protocol is 15 meters (45 feet). 30 feet should be just fine. I would however just put the PR3 next to the computer and run the loconet the 30 feet. Makes more sense and allows you to have the program track at the computer. Edit: If you have a problem with windows 7 try running the program in compatibility mode by right clicking on the setup file and select troubleshoot compatibility.
thats the problem with windows 7 home, there is no compatabillity mode which is why i'm upgrading to ultimate.
Stevert locoworks: i made that mistake first time round, xp gives you an easy option to pick your files to install, 7 just does what it wants if you let it, but i did uninstall and then do it again and install from the little CD. NO joy. You can tell if it's installed properly by going into Device Manager and expanding the "Ports (COM & LPT) section. When you plug the PR3 in, another COM port should appear after a second or two, and when you unplug it, that COM port will disappear (that also tells you which COM port you should assign in your software). And if you right-click on it, select Properties, and go to the Driver tab, it should say the "Driver Provider" is Digitrax. The only other thing I can think of, is to try a different USB cable. It's a standard A-B USB cable, like you'd use for a printer or scanner, so it shouldn't be hard to find one you can try at least temporarily. But it's certainly not a Win7 incompatibility. Lots of folks use their PR3's with Win7, including me.
locoworks: i made that mistake first time round, xp gives you an easy option to pick your files to install, 7 just does what it wants if you let it, but i did uninstall and then do it again and install from the little CD. NO joy.
i know it can work in windows 7, just not sure about the 'home' version of 7. i did go into device manager and it found what was plugged in, i went to the driver section and did update driver and directed the install to the CD, it said there were NO drivers for that device on the CD!!?? the icon in device manager had the yellow cirlce with an exclamation mark in it.
locoworksi know it can work in windows 7, just not sure about the 'home' version of 7. i did go into device manager and it found what was plugged in, i went to the driver section and did update driver and directed the install to the CD, it said there were NO drivers for that device on the CD!!?? the icon in device manager had the yellow cirlce with an exclamation mark in it.
All three of the computers I have used my PR3 with are Win7 Home Premium (two 32-bit machines and one 64-bit machine), so yes, I can confirm that the PR3 works just fine with both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Win7 Home Premium.
But I'm not sure that "updating" from the Windows drivers to the Digitrax drivers will work. I'm pretty sure that you have to uninstall the device and let Windows detect it again, then during the install tell Windows to use the Digitrax drivers instead of it's own drivers. Again, if you follow the Digitrax instructions for Vista exactly, compensating only for the difference in the Vista screens vs. the Win7 screens presented to you, you'll get it done correctly.
Oh, and one other thought: When you tried updating the drivers, did you drill down all the way to the actual folder on the mini-CD that has the Vista drivers, or did you just point it to the CD and leave it at that? I'm still not sure that method will work, but either way, if Windows couldn't find them, you probably didn't drill down far enough.
Skip the mini-cd, just go to the Digitrrax site and download the latest version, and put it in a folder on you hard drive. When prompted for drivers just go to that folder instead of the min-cd in you drive. Problem of large hard drives - so much space you never clean anything up - mine are still there even though once you get the driver installed, you don;t need that folder any more.
Compatibility mode is simply a Windows XP virtual machine. That's a good chunk of the price difference - paying for that license of XP to run. I installed it just to see how it worked, have not found ANY reason to actually use it so far and I've been using Windows 7 exclusively since it was released.
Altough the OP has a NEC DCC system; the Digitrax PR3 can be utilized as a stand alone Doecoder Programer with Decoder Pro and a short test track next to the computer. You don't even need a Digitrax system to use a PR3.
I work away from home and use the time on the road to add DCC decoders to my locomotives. I have a Digitrax DCC System, but use Decoder Pro and a PR3 with my laptop. My home layout uses Decoder Pro, but I have an old Digitrax MS100 and my old Windows XP desk top PC to run the layout and program decoders. I have a Power Pax for sound decoders. A Power Pax is not necessary with a PR3.
locoworks Edit: If you have a problem with windows 7 try running the program in compatibility mode by right clicking on the setup file and select troubleshoot compatibility. thats the problem with windows 7 home, there is no compatabillity mode which is why i'm upgrading to ultimate.
Windows 7 home premium has the compatability mode. That's what I run and I have the mode.
I too missed that the OP is using NCE.
I would suggest that he simply put the PH PRo next to the PC and run the BUSS and CAB wire to the layout. There won't be any wire length limitations that way. It will also make it easy to put a program track at the PC.