I wish I could paste a picture for you. Since the upgrade, pictures are not working for me. I am not as computer savvy as I am trains. It is self explanatory on gluing a shim to the guard rail between the stock rail and guard rail. If you have an NMRA standards gauge use the flange tab and you will see that the gap is too wide and some wheels will pick the frog point.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
I'm a visual person, if you could, please post a photo of where you did this and what it looks like, this way, I feel good about doing this to all my PECO 100 code turnouts.
GoleyC
Dave.
The guard rails next to the stock rails in the frog area. The guard rails are styrene and take glue easily. I glue a length of .015 styrene to the guard rail and after the glue dries trim the ends flush with the guard rail and paint. This brings the flange way close to the NMRA RP and keeps the wheels from picking the frog point. The Peco code 100 is made for the British thick flange (Pizza cutter) wheels.
Pete:
I plan on using Peco Electrofrog turnouts, but I have not heard of the need to shim them before. Could you perhaps post a picture showing exactly where you put the shims?
Thanks
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Thanks for all of the useful information guys !!
Hopefully I can now get my layout designed and running !
Brian
retsignalmtr Electrofrog switches require a couple of extra steps during track laying. Insulated rail joiners must be used on both rails coming off the frog and switch machines with auxiliary contacts to power the frog should be used.
Electrofrog switches require a couple of extra steps during track laying. Insulated rail joiners must be used on both rails coming off the frog and switch machines with auxiliary contacts to power the frog should be used.
This may or may not be true. Walthers code 83 turnouts have a fully isolated electro-frog that does not require isulated rail joiners. (This is because they are DCC friendly)
Also, DCC will run no worse that DC over an isulated frog.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
First off, Insulfrog and Electrofrog are Peco brand-specific terms. The generic terms are dead frog and live frog.
Theoretically, a dead frog will allow the closure rails and the adjacent stock rails to be of the same polarity (or phase, if DCC) without shorting (either directly or through passing wheels) where they cross. As the nail polish insulation comment indicates, some times they are less than perfect for this job.
A live frog means that it, the closure rails, the rails that extend beyond the heel of the frog and, frequently, the points are a single electrical unit. This indicates a need for rail gaps and contacts moving with the switch points to assure proper electrical continuity. If the points are included, this makes it possible to have 'back of the wheel to open point' shorts - not good for analog DC, really bad for DCC.
I, personally, have chosen to have live frogs and dead (not connected to anything when open) points. This is driven by two facts peculiar to my situation:
All of my switch machines have contact sets, and it is possible to put microswitches in the mechanical linkage or relays in the electrical control circuit of a machine that doesn't have them. For manual control of switch points, I use electrical switches for throw/lock mechanisms, which automatically provides me the necessary contacts. Connecting three short pieces of wire is a minor price to pay for bulletproof track electricals.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
The chances are rather good, I'm thinking, that you will at some time want to try DCC. When that happens, you'll be ready to go if you have insulfrog turnouts already in place. The only caveat, as already mentioned, is that your engines must be able to traverse the insulated frogs and still get pickup somewhere on either side of the frog.
Crandell
The insulfrogs can be dropped right in the layout. No insulated joiners needed. Electrofrogs need the insulated joiners at the 2 rails from the frog to work on both DC and DCC. Bear in mind that the code 100 and 75 are based on British standards. The flange ways are too wide for NMRA standards and need to be shimmed .015 for reliable operations. Our club uses them for our modules and after shimming there is absolutely no problems with them at all. There code 83 are based on US standards.
It's not operations that either switch makes easier. Electrofrog switches require a couple of extra steps during track laying. Insulated rail joiners must be used on both rails coming off the frog and switch machines with auxiliary contacts to power the frog should be used. Sometimes rails have to be cut and wires added to make them more DCC friendly.
Insulfrog switches sometimes have large black plastic or insulated metal frogs that do not provide power to short wheelbase locos while passing over the frogs and don't look too good. They work good on DC but also have some problems with DCC that does not show up on DC. I use Peco insulfrog switches on my N scale layout and my club uses peco HO in the layout there. The frog rails that are so close together that loco and car wheels will bridge both rails causing a short. This doesn't usually show up on DC systems. Extending the insulation by applying some nailpolish works, but must be reapplied when it wears off.
If you don't have any idea what DCC is then stick to the insulfrog type switches
When it comes to DCC... I have no clue what that is about and do not have anything 'DCC'.
The isulfrog diamond (Peco) I have will allow two trains to run at the same time, correct?
Provided they are both DCC friendly
Electrofrog has more benefits as it will provide more consistant power to your engines as they cross over the frogs. This is especially important for locos that have few picks. (Alco RS1/2/3, F-7, F-3, 0-6-0T etc)
Electrofrogs also look better.
The downside is you'll have to find a switch machine that also has a power relay in it like a tortoise or a blue point. Then you have to wire them up.
-D
Which do you prefer and which makes operations easier?